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Clearly you've never worked at an all-male environment if you think that would necessarily by nag-free, gossip-free and rage-free. In my experience, an environm

by gensym 15y ago

Clearly you've never worked at an all-male environment if you think that would necessarily by nag-free, gossip-free and rage-free. In my experience, an environment without women devolves into some "Lord of the Flies"-type shit pretty quickly unless you're super careful about who you hire, personality-wise. Seriously, all research done on the matter indicates that women are just as effective as software development as men, so the lack of women in software development indicates it's far from the meritocracy you seem to imagine it is. This "either you are qualified for the job, or you aren't so it's ok to act like an asshole" bullshit has gotten pretty old in 2012. Here's a clue: if you're a lead developer creating an environment that's hostile to a large pool of potentially highly skilled developers, you're not fucking qualified, regardless of your coding skills. Otherwise, what's the point of the word "lead"?

ThaddeusQuay2 15y ago
Not that it might matter to your reply, but FYI: I added a couple of sentences just as you were posting. Clearly, your experiential matrix is not the same as mine. I'm 45, and I've worked in many different environments since I was about 15, when I was at a boys-only school, which, by the way, functioned quite well without devolving into anything resembling Lord of the Flies. The lack of women in software development indicates that there aren't enough women who can "take it like a man", so to speak. Whatever men dish out is merely a social filter, designed to rid their environment of those (men and women) who can't handle pressure. If you are much shorter than me, and I want you gone, the first thing I'll do is to repeatedly call you "shorty", because that's an easy way to start, as it's the low-hanging fruit in the insult aisle. Either you are qualified, or you aren't. That wasn't bullshit a hundred years ago, and it shouldn't be today. You make the assumption that women can be highly skilled. My experience is that, in general, they are not, and most of the few who are, have a personality which clouds their judgment. Knowing how to program is not enough for the job. You need to have non-related life skills, such as dealing with people who don't like you, or who are otherwise in your way.
- hcayless 15y ago
  There were teachers at your all-boys school whose job it was to prevent the Lord-of-the-Flies scenario and if yours was anything like mine, they expended a lot of energy on that task :-). You're attempting to rationalize the mostly-male situation you find yourself in, but it's pure conjecture. Women are (in general) just as capable as men (in general) at software development. My own belief is that there are a host of poorly understood factors that tend to push women away from software engineering careers. One of them is the fact that it's a "boys' club", but it's mainly a boys' club because it's mostly boys—if there were more women, cheerful misogyny like that exhibited in your "take it like a man" comment would be less acceptable. In other words, we can't fix the problem (and it is a problem) of gender imbalance in software engineering just by not being asses to women, but it's a place to start.

by gensym 15y ago

ThaddeusQuay2 15y ago

Not that it might matter to your reply, but FYI: I added a couple of sentences just as you were posting. Clearly, your experiential matrix is not the same as mine. I'm 45, and I've worked in many different environments since I was about 15, when I was at a boys-only school, which, by the way, functioned quite well without devolving into anything resembling Lord of the Flies. The lack of women in software development indicates that there aren't enough women who can "take it like a man", so to speak. Whatever men dish out is merely a social filter, designed to rid their environment of those (men and women) who can't handle pressure. If you are much shorter than me, and I want you gone, the first thing I'll do is to repeatedly call you "shorty", because that's an easy way to start, as it's the low-hanging fruit in the insult aisle. Either you are qualified, or you aren't. That wasn't bullshit a hundred years ago, and it shouldn't be today. You make the assumption that women can be highly skilled. My experience is that, in general, they are not, and most of the few who are, have a personality which clouds their judgment. Knowing how to program is not enough for the job. You need to have non-related life skills, such as dealing with people who don't like you, or who are otherwise in your way.

hcayless 15y ago
There were teachers at your all-boys school whose job it was to prevent the Lord-of-the-Flies scenario and if yours was anything like mine, they expended a lot of energy on that task :-). You're attempting to rationalize the mostly-male situation you find yourself in, but it's pure conjecture. Women are (in general) just as capable as men (in general) at software development. My own belief is that there are a host of poorly understood factors that tend to push women away from software engineering careers. One of them is the fact that it's a "boys' club", but it's mainly a boys' club because it's mostly boys—if there were more women, cheerful misogyny like that exhibited in your "take it like a man" comment would be less acceptable. In other words, we can't fix the problem (and it is a problem) of gender imbalance in software engineering just by not being asses to women, but it's a place to start.