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This is why I refuse to take Rust, Go, or Swift seriously. There are so many other languages out there that aren't insanely political with so many people's hand
by jhatemyjob 3y ago
This is why I refuse to take Rust, Go, or Swift seriously. There are so many other languages out there that aren't insanely political with so many people's hands in it. There is no way good decisions can be made in an environment like that. Of course, the main advantage of joining the Rust cult is that the job market for "Rust programmers" is pretty well-defined, so labeling yourself as a "Rust programmer" will allow you to tap into those markets. But I'd argue those markets are pretty bad.
- Kye 3y agoI've only seen the wars over when and if to adopt new C and C++ standards in the distant periphery, but it seems like any attempt to encode human interests and needs into systems through code brings about strife. The politics there might be less visible since it happens on mailing lists and old forums no one's ever heard of, but the only difference is visibility. New languages will inevitably adopt the means of communication they grew up in. That's blogs and gists and tweets.
- jhatemyjob 3y agoYes of course C++ isn't any better. C is a weird one since it's the "original language", the base layer of abstraction so-to-speak so C89 is going to be the standard forever. The standards committee around that one has zero power (as far as I can tell). What I'm comparing Rust/Swift/Go to are languages like MoonScript/Objective-C/Lua, where there is a single BDFL (Leafo/Steve Jobs/Roberto). I feel like for programming languages there should only be 1 or 2 developers, that way there is no conflict of interest or "creative differences"
- makapuf 3y agoThats funny, because that same person we are talking about battled the C standard committee (with bureaucracy, not specific people) into accepting #embed : https://thephd.dev/finally-embed-in-c23 https://thephd.dev/finally-embed-in-c23
- jhatemyjob 3y agoWow nice post. Interesting lens into standards committee politics. Also in my original comment I meant C99, not C89. Everything after C99 is kind of irrelevant. That's what makes C so cool. It's frozen in time, essentially. Can't be corrupted.
- jstx1 3y agoWait what have Go and Swift done?
- stefanos82 3y agoFor Go I presume the telemetry situation?
- hu3 3y agoDidn't they change Go telemetry to be opt-in before the functionality was even released? So they heard their users. I would say that's a good thing. edit: Yep, they announced their intentions and after consulting the community, they changed it to be opt-in instead. https://github.com/golang/go/issues/58894 https://github.com/golang/go/issues/58894
- unethical_ban 3y agoIf you wanted to use any of these languages, you can do so without ever knowing that these kinds of behind-the-scenes drama is taking place. I haven't heard anyone suggest that actual development of the named languages has suffered due to drama.
- shri_krishna 3y agoI love Go. I don't see any controversies surrounding Go. Or did I miss something?
- Gibbon1 3y agoWhole thing around generics where Pike and the community would attack the competence of anyone suggesting that go was lacking for not having them. That left a bad bad taste in my mouth.
- cultofmetatron 3y agocome to elixir. Everyone is focused on making the language and ecosystem awesome with no drama.
- krainboltgreene 3y agoDo not come to Elixir. We care about people and intentions, those that don't aren't welcome.
- cultofmetatron 3y agoThats not very welcoming. technology is a tool and we all have the freedom to use it for what we want. as someone who's been part of the elixir community and built his whole startup in elixir, I say if you're interested in building distributed realtime systems, join us. I dont care about your politics. If you want to contribute to the tech, come join us.
- krainboltgreene 3y ago> Thats not very welcoming The best way to create an environment that is actually unwelcoming is to openly invite people who don't care about others.