3 ms·

I'm an Anglican (Episcopalian) deacon – your question is perhaps slightly problematic, in that "religion" is extremely difficult to define. Westerners (confessi

I'm an Anglican (Episcopalian) deacon – your question is perhaps slightly problematic, in that "religion" is extremely difficult to define. Westerners (confessional Christians or not) tend to have in mind something that looks a bit like protestant Christianity. Faith traditions intersect with culture and history and everything else. Brent Nongbri's "Before Religion" is good on this; he engages with the whole concept of "religion" and pulls it apart; you mention the idea of evolution of religion, which is itself an idea he critiques. You might find it very interesting. I can't speak for any other major faith, but if you want a thousand-mile in the sky view of the history of Christianity, Alister McGrath's "Christian History" is a decent start. You might find short courses being run at a local university or theological college.

dangitnotagain 3y ago
And for Islam, I recommend Karen Armstrong’s “Islam: A Short History”. This book gives context to Muhammad as a Man in addition to the influential religion he adapted/created (for most major religions are adaptations, “modernizations” of what came before.)
- mrwnmonm 3y ago
  I would add "What is Islam? - by Shahab Ahmed" and "A Culture of Ambiguity - by Thomas Bauer", althought I don't agree with everything they say.
- travisgriggs 3y ago
  Is this a book that adherents of Islam would be cool with? I ask because… From my experience as a reader and an adherent to a slightly-less-than-mainstream Christian, I’ve observed that books about religion come in three general flavors: - extra extra! Read all about our awesome religion! - have you heard about that religion over there? Read here to learn ingesting tidbits that are inclined to make sure it remains that religion, out of your circle - here’s just an honest attempt to shed light without an agenda, make of it what you will, practitioners and non-adherents are mostly cool with the content My experience is that first two categories dominate; the third is harder to come by. Always interested in that third kind.
  - dangitnotagain 3y ago
    The third, certainly the third. Did you know Muhammad was a [land] privateer? When blackballed by the corrupt regime of his day, he resorted to laying moral and rightful siege upon supply lines to feed his tribes who were otherwise pushed to starvation. Sometimes facts rival fiction in their intrigues, love him or hate him, his is one such story. (And I cannot speak for adherents, only as one interested in history of peoples throughout the world.)
    - travisgriggs 3y ago
      If you are not an adherent, how can you be confident it is of the third type? For me the litmus test goes something like this: “I understand you’re an adherent of X. I read this book about X called… it led me to empathize with practitioners of your faith in ways A, B, C and D. I hope that is mostly correct?” If the respondent is relatively open minded and says “yeah, I think those are fair points. It’s nice to be understood a little better”, then the book passes muster.
      - kamaal 3y ago
        As a muslim man, introducing the concept of prophets to a lot of people, including muslims themselves is always an exercise in inducing surprise or even shock. I think most people like to think of prophets through analogies of modern day or at least a stereotype of monks, saints or ascetics. There is a certain cookie cut stereotype definitions and marking that people think prophets have to fit through. In reality the prophets in Islam have come in all personality and character ranges. From Kings, to shepherds, to warriors, to carpenters. Muhammad was mostly all of this. A neutral treatment of the subject without bias of course also needs a very similar treatment of the subject from the reader. Any prior bias while reading a subject this complicated, that spawns across millennia, with the prophets with such diverse cultural, linguistic, political etc settings is not likely to be anything like a stereotypical all weather saint life. Islam, the definition itself, is a strictly monotheistic religion. You worship one god(Allah) alone, and the way you worship that one god is how the prophet(s) asked you to worship. Allah defines what Allah is in various parts of the Quran(eg 2:25, Chapter 112). The worship itself, 5 times a day, fasting during Ramadan, pilgrimage to Mecca, Charity, Animal sacrifice is all to be done for Allah and Allah alone(no partners, or any other extra deity allowed). You are also expected to believe in angels, books sent before, prophets before Muhammad, Day of judgement and divine destiny written by Allah. Like you are actually supposed to believe in them. Which reduces the whole activity to be free of forcing it, or coercing some body to just verbally state them. Above this is the last level, like you worship god like god is in front of you. There are other laws related to diet, purity and inheritance. In general you are advised to enjoin good and forbid evil. The lives of the prophet(s), therefore serves as a useful guidance in this regard and is called (Sunnah). In general the Quran is good starting point to learn more Islam. Its like the defining text. This is like the basic structure. And then of course when you meet muslims you now deal with a community, and like all communities they come with all your shades of human behaviour.
sdsaga12 3y ago
I second the recommendation for Nongbri's "Before Religion". It definitely improved my understanding of what it is we even mean / have meant by "religion". For a more evolutionary understanding of religion, I'd recommend Joseph Henrich's "The WEIRDest People in the World" and "The Secret of our Success". Finally though certainly not least importantly, I'd recommend Iain McGilchrist's "The Master and His Emissary" and "The Matter with Things". Both touch on how it is we see and understand the world and how the current default perspective differs from those of other times and places.

dangitnotagain 3y ago

And for Islam, I recommend Karen Armstrong’s “Islam: A Short History”. This book gives context to Muhammad as a Man in addition to the influential religion he adapted/created (for most major religions are adaptations, “modernizations” of what came before.)

mrwnmonm 3y ago
I would add "What is Islam? - by Shahab Ahmed" and "A Culture of Ambiguity - by Thomas Bauer", althought I don't agree with everything they say.
travisgriggs 3y ago
Is this a book that adherents of Islam would be cool with? I ask because… From my experience as a reader and an adherent to a slightly-less-than-mainstream Christian, I’ve observed that books about religion come in three general flavors: - extra extra! Read all about our awesome religion! - have you heard about that religion over there? Read here to learn ingesting tidbits that are inclined to make sure it remains that religion, out of your circle - here’s just an honest attempt to shed light without an agenda, make of it what you will, practitioners and non-adherents are mostly cool with the content My experience is that first two categories dominate; the third is harder to come by. Always interested in that third kind.
- dangitnotagain 3y ago
  The third, certainly the third. Did you know Muhammad was a [land] privateer? When blackballed by the corrupt regime of his day, he resorted to laying moral and rightful siege upon supply lines to feed his tribes who were otherwise pushed to starvation. Sometimes facts rival fiction in their intrigues, love him or hate him, his is one such story. (And I cannot speak for adherents, only as one interested in history of peoples throughout the world.)
  - travisgriggs 3y ago
    If you are not an adherent, how can you be confident it is of the third type? For me the litmus test goes something like this: “I understand you’re an adherent of X. I read this book about X called… it led me to empathize with practitioners of your faith in ways A, B, C and D. I hope that is mostly correct?” If the respondent is relatively open minded and says “yeah, I think those are fair points. It’s nice to be understood a little better”, then the book passes muster.
    - kamaal 3y ago
      As a muslim man, introducing the concept of prophets to a lot of people, including muslims themselves is always an exercise in inducing surprise or even shock. I think most people like to think of prophets through analogies of modern day or at least a stereotype of monks, saints or ascetics. There is a certain cookie cut stereotype definitions and marking that people think prophets have to fit through. In reality the prophets in Islam have come in all personality and character ranges. From Kings, to shepherds, to warriors, to carpenters. Muhammad was mostly all of this. A neutral treatment of the subject without bias of course also needs a very similar treatment of the subject from the reader. Any prior bias while reading a subject this complicated, that spawns across millennia, with the prophets with such diverse cultural, linguistic, political etc settings is not likely to be anything like a stereotypical all weather saint life. Islam, the definition itself, is a strictly monotheistic religion. You worship one god(Allah) alone, and the way you worship that one god is how the prophet(s) asked you to worship. Allah defines what Allah is in various parts of the Quran(eg 2:25, Chapter 112). The worship itself, 5 times a day, fasting during Ramadan, pilgrimage to Mecca, Charity, Animal sacrifice is all to be done for Allah and Allah alone(no partners, or any other extra deity allowed). You are also expected to believe in angels, books sent before, prophets before Muhammad, Day of judgement and divine destiny written by Allah. Like you are actually supposed to believe in them. Which reduces the whole activity to be free of forcing it, or coercing some body to just verbally state them. Above this is the last level, like you worship god like god is in front of you. There are other laws related to diet, purity and inheritance. In general you are advised to enjoin good and forbid evil. The lives of the prophet(s), therefore serves as a useful guidance in this regard and is called (Sunnah). In general the Quran is good starting point to learn more Islam. Its like the defining text. This is like the basic structure. And then of course when you meet muslims you now deal with a community, and like all communities they come with all your shades of human behaviour.

sdsaga12 3y ago

I second the recommendation for Nongbri's "Before Religion". It definitely improved my understanding of what it is we even mean / have meant by "religion". For a more evolutionary understanding of religion, I'd recommend Joseph Henrich's "The WEIRDest People in the World" and "The Secret of our Success". Finally though certainly not least importantly, I'd recommend Iain McGilchrist's "The Master and His Emissary" and "The Matter with Things". Both touch on how it is we see and understand the world and how the current default perspective differs from those of other times and places.