4 ms·

so, as you assume the existence of malvolent non-thermal effects: would you be so kind and point out their mechanism? And also, if there is a mechanism: what d

by fock 3y ago

so, as you assume the existence of malvolent non-thermal effects: would you be so kind and point out their mechanism? And also, if there is a mechanism: what do people do to verify that mechanism? There should be a way to verify that without self-selected human populations and crappy papermills as cited by you.

superkuh 3y ago
You're right. It's just that the only people who click to comment on stupid articles like this are the "electrosensitive" mentally ill and RF engineers. And there's more mentally ill than RF engineers. In the past they'd be obsessing over ghosts or something but now radio is the invisible thing people don't understand and latch on to. There's no non-thermal mechanism confirmed in any reputable journal and the user above is not going to provide anything other than hand waving about two photon effects (laughable) or "gap junctions" and extracellular potential woo-woo.
- FollowingTheDao 3y ago
  > It's just that the only people who click to comment on stupid articles like this are the "electrosensitive" mentally ill What if EMFs are causing the mental illness? This will be relevant later in this comment. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891061815000599 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089106181... > There's no non-thermal mechanism confirmed in any reputable journal Is Pubmed not reputable? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=EMFs+non-thermal+effects https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=EMFs+non-thermal+effec... Is Elseveir not reputable? https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1383571803002766 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13835... The ideas behind how this happens seem to be solidifying around EMFs affecting Voltage Gated Ion Channels: https://nyaspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/nyas.14597 https://nyaspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ny... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0143416003002057 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01434... And hey, regarding the mental illness, you know what the number one gene linked to mental illness effects? The Voltage Gated Calcium Ion Channel (CACNA1C) https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/44/5/958/5048933 https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/44/5/... "Large-scale genome-wide association studies have consistently shown that genetic variation in CACNA1C, a gene that encodes calcium voltage-gated channel subunit alpha1C, increases risk for psychiatric disorders. "
  - nulld3v 3y ago
    Did you read some of those PubMed articles? Some of them have comments that really question the validity of their findings. For example: I see Pall has written a bunch and this one in particular has quite a few "sus" comments: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29573716/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29573716/ The article is a meta study but there are several comments from the authors of the original studies indicating that they believe Pall did not interpret their study correctly.
    - FollowingTheDao 3y ago
      I never said there were no poor researchers, or any unanswered questions. I am merely pointing out the fact that the science is nowhere near settled. But one thing you can’t do is deny my experience of electromagnetic, hyper sensitivity syndrome. And you also can’t deny my genetics.
      - fock 3y ago
        Citing yourself > First, they are only concerned about thermal changes and it is well know now that RF-EMFs have non-thermal effects on biology(1). > Second, the SAR levels were set using non-pulsed EMFs, and that makes a difference in the biology of RF-EMFs effects(2). Ah, the science is nowhere settled. I would recommend you start using the appropriate verbs in the future instead of making factual statements!
        FollowingTheDao 3y ago
        Those bits of the science are settled.
        fock 3y ago
        that is a lie, when these mechanisms defy both quantum mechanics and anything we know about chemistry.
- fock 3y ago
  Yes, I know the stories, I'm fighting a tiny faction in a micro-eco-party on it... The worst thing is, how the community behind this (50/50 crooks and then some old, methodologically not up-to-date people...) essentially practices information laundering in an exemplary fashion: 1) start with crappy experiments in papermill annexes, 2) make a review on those leaving out any where replication was found to be "hard" and misinterpreting 0-results and go up a bit in credibility of your publisher, 3) go on spam on hackernews/with your local environmental group 4) don't answer questions 5) stop answering questions.
Gnarl 3y ago
Oxidative-stress and formation of free-radicals via erratic activation of voltage-gated cell-membrane ion channels. Pulsed and polarized fields most biologically active. The above linked papers give a good intro to this field of research.
- fock 3y ago
  So now you can start predicting outcomes of new experiments with your new physics? Right? Would you mind telling me about those too?

by fock 3y ago

superkuh 3y ago

You're right. It's just that the only people who click to comment on stupid articles like this are the "electrosensitive" mentally ill and RF engineers. And there's more mentally ill than RF engineers. In the past they'd be obsessing over ghosts or something but now radio is the invisible thing people don't understand and latch on to. There's no non-thermal mechanism confirmed in any reputable journal and the user above is not going to provide anything other than hand waving about two photon effects (laughable) or "gap junctions" and extracellular potential woo-woo.

FollowingTheDao 3y ago
> It's just that the only people who click to comment on stupid articles like this are the "electrosensitive" mentally ill What if EMFs are causing the mental illness? This will be relevant later in this comment. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891061815000599 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089106181... > There's no non-thermal mechanism confirmed in any reputable journal Is Pubmed not reputable? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=EMFs+non-thermal+effects https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=EMFs+non-thermal+effec... Is Elseveir not reputable? https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1383571803002766 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13835... The ideas behind how this happens seem to be solidifying around EMFs affecting Voltage Gated Ion Channels: https://nyaspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/nyas.14597 https://nyaspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ny... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0143416003002057 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01434... And hey, regarding the mental illness, you know what the number one gene linked to mental illness effects? The Voltage Gated Calcium Ion Channel (CACNA1C) https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/44/5/958/5048933 https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/44/5/... "Large-scale genome-wide association studies have consistently shown that genetic variation in CACNA1C, a gene that encodes calcium voltage-gated channel subunit alpha1C, increases risk for psychiatric disorders. "
- nulld3v 3y ago
  Did you read some of those PubMed articles? Some of them have comments that really question the validity of their findings. For example: I see Pall has written a bunch and this one in particular has quite a few "sus" comments: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29573716/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29573716/ The article is a meta study but there are several comments from the authors of the original studies indicating that they believe Pall did not interpret their study correctly.
  - FollowingTheDao 3y ago
    I never said there were no poor researchers, or any unanswered questions. I am merely pointing out the fact that the science is nowhere near settled. But one thing you can’t do is deny my experience of electromagnetic, hyper sensitivity syndrome. And you also can’t deny my genetics.
    - fock 3y ago
      Citing yourself > First, they are only concerned about thermal changes and it is well know now that RF-EMFs have non-thermal effects on biology(1). > Second, the SAR levels were set using non-pulsed EMFs, and that makes a difference in the biology of RF-EMFs effects(2). Ah, the science is nowhere settled. I would recommend you start using the appropriate verbs in the future instead of making factual statements!
      - FollowingTheDao 3y ago
        Those bits of the science are settled.
        fock 3y ago
        that is a lie, when these mechanisms defy both quantum mechanics and anything we know about chemistry.
fock 3y ago
Yes, I know the stories, I'm fighting a tiny faction in a micro-eco-party on it... The worst thing is, how the community behind this (50/50 crooks and then some old, methodologically not up-to-date people...) essentially practices information laundering in an exemplary fashion: 1) start with crappy experiments in papermill annexes, 2) make a review on those leaving out any where replication was found to be "hard" and misinterpreting 0-results and go up a bit in credibility of your publisher, 3) go on spam on hackernews/with your local environmental group 4) don't answer questions 5) stop answering questions.

Gnarl 3y ago

Oxidative-stress and formation of free-radicals via erratic activation of voltage-gated cell-membrane ion channels. Pulsed and polarized fields most biologically active. The above linked papers give a good intro to this field of research.

fock 3y ago
So now you can start predicting outcomes of new experiments with your new physics? Right? Would you mind telling me about those too?