4 ms·

SAR Values are useless because of what they measure and how they measure them. First, they are only concerned about thermal changes and it is well know now tha

SAR Values are useless because of what they measure and how they measure them. First, they are only concerned about thermal changes and it is well know now that RF-EMFs have non-thermal effects on biology(1). Second, the SAR levels were set using non-pulsed EMFs, and that makes a difference in the biology of RF-EMFs effects(2). (1) https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.1201/9781003201052-6/oxidative-stress-induced-wireless-communication-electromagnetic-fields-igor-yakymenko-oleksandr-tsybulin https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.1201/97810032... (2) https://www.spandidos-publications.com/ijo/59/5/92 https://www.spandidos-publications.com/ijo/59/5/92

gjsman-1000 3y ago
It’s scary how in the news lately, there are some things brewing that we thought were safe that just might not be. Another one my family is watching is that Fluoride being potentially dangerous (a classic conspiracy theorist stereotype) is back in the news and a lawsuit against the EPA has been allowed to proceed. https://www.salon.com/2023/03/16/health-officials-delayed-report-linking-fluoride-to-brain-harm_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2023/03/16/health-officials-delayed-re...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- cubefox 3y ago
  Also clothes made out of synthetic fiber shed household dust, microplastics, which we breathe in, and which could be responsible for all kinds of illness. I'm a lot more concerned of getting cotton clothes (carpets, blankets) in the future.
fock 3y ago
so, as you assume the existence of malvolent non-thermal effects: would you be so kind and point out their mechanism? And also, if there is a mechanism: what do people do to verify that mechanism? There should be a way to verify that without self-selected human populations and crappy papermills as cited by you.
- superkuh 3y ago
  You're right. It's just that the only people who click to comment on stupid articles like this are the "electrosensitive" mentally ill and RF engineers. And there's more mentally ill than RF engineers. In the past they'd be obsessing over ghosts or something but now radio is the invisible thing people don't understand and latch on to. There's no non-thermal mechanism confirmed in any reputable journal and the user above is not going to provide anything other than hand waving about two photon effects (laughable) or "gap junctions" and extracellular potential woo-woo.
  - FollowingTheDao 3y ago
    > It's just that the only people who click to comment on stupid articles like this are the "electrosensitive" mentally ill What if EMFs are causing the mental illness? This will be relevant later in this comment. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891061815000599 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089106181... > There's no non-thermal mechanism confirmed in any reputable journal Is Pubmed not reputable? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=EMFs+non-thermal+effects https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=EMFs+non-thermal+effec... Is Elseveir not reputable? https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1383571803002766 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13835... The ideas behind how this happens seem to be solidifying around EMFs affecting Voltage Gated Ion Channels: https://nyaspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/nyas.14597 https://nyaspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ny... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0143416003002057 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01434... And hey, regarding the mental illness, you know what the number one gene linked to mental illness effects? The Voltage Gated Calcium Ion Channel (CACNA1C) https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/44/5/958/5048933 https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/44/5/... "Large-scale genome-wide association studies have consistently shown that genetic variation in CACNA1C, a gene that encodes calcium voltage-gated channel subunit alpha1C, increases risk for psychiatric disorders. "
    - nulld3v 3y ago
      Did you read some of those PubMed articles? Some of them have comments that really question the validity of their findings. For example: I see Pall has written a bunch and this one in particular has quite a few "sus" comments: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29573716/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29573716/ The article is a meta study but there are several comments from the authors of the original studies indicating that they believe Pall did not interpret their study correctly.
daneel_w 3y ago
For those who read and understand these publishings, are there any indications of roughly what wattage (and distance from such transmitting antenna/panel) the EMF/EMR starts becoming a problem?
- FollowingTheDao 3y ago
  There’s a problem from looking at it from only a wattage perspective since whether the EMFs are pulse or not is also important. Also, the effect on any individual might be related to several variables, including genetics, current load of oxidative stress, or other exogenous factors. What they are trying to do is find people who truly have electromagnetic hypersensitivity syndrome and look at them for biological markers. They’re not solely interested in the power because they know there are variables that make people more sensitive than other people. This was found true in leukemia studies and overhead powerlines in the 90s. They found people with certain genetics that were more susceptible to leukemia from those low frequency EMFs.
  - EdwardDiego 3y ago
    Really? Because IIRC, the relationship was more poverty related than actual EMF related. Living under powerlines is unattractive, so houses under powerlines attract people who can't afford to live elsewhere. But, if you've got citations on that one, I'll happily read them.
    - FollowingTheDao 3y ago
      https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ijc.27542 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ijc.27542
      - EdwardDiego 3y ago
        Cheers, that makes sense.

gjsman-1000 3y ago

It’s scary how in the news lately, there are some things brewing that we thought were safe that just might not be. Another one my family is watching is that Fluoride being potentially dangerous (a classic conspiracy theorist stereotype) is back in the news and a lawsuit against the EPA has been allowed to proceed. https://www.salon.com/2023/03/16/health-officials-delayed-report-linking-fluoride-to-brain-harm_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2023/03/16/health-officials-delayed-re...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
cubefox 3y ago
Also clothes made out of synthetic fiber shed household dust, microplastics, which we breathe in, and which could be responsible for all kinds of illness. I'm a lot more concerned of getting cotton clothes (carpets, blankets) in the future.

fock 3y ago

so, as you assume the existence of malvolent non-thermal effects: would you be so kind and point out their mechanism? And also, if there is a mechanism: what do people do to verify that mechanism? There should be a way to verify that without self-selected human populations and crappy papermills as cited by you.

superkuh 3y ago
You're right. It's just that the only people who click to comment on stupid articles like this are the "electrosensitive" mentally ill and RF engineers. And there's more mentally ill than RF engineers. In the past they'd be obsessing over ghosts or something but now radio is the invisible thing people don't understand and latch on to. There's no non-thermal mechanism confirmed in any reputable journal and the user above is not going to provide anything other than hand waving about two photon effects (laughable) or "gap junctions" and extracellular potential woo-woo.
- FollowingTheDao 3y ago
  > It's just that the only people who click to comment on stupid articles like this are the "electrosensitive" mentally ill What if EMFs are causing the mental illness? This will be relevant later in this comment. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891061815000599 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089106181... > There's no non-thermal mechanism confirmed in any reputable journal Is Pubmed not reputable? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=EMFs+non-thermal+effects https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=EMFs+non-thermal+effec... Is Elseveir not reputable? https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1383571803002766 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13835... The ideas behind how this happens seem to be solidifying around EMFs affecting Voltage Gated Ion Channels: https://nyaspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/nyas.14597 https://nyaspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ny... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0143416003002057 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01434... And hey, regarding the mental illness, you know what the number one gene linked to mental illness effects? The Voltage Gated Calcium Ion Channel (CACNA1C) https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/44/5/958/5048933 https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/44/5/... "Large-scale genome-wide association studies have consistently shown that genetic variation in CACNA1C, a gene that encodes calcium voltage-gated channel subunit alpha1C, increases risk for psychiatric disorders. "
  - nulld3v 3y ago
    Did you read some of those PubMed articles? Some of them have comments that really question the validity of their findings. For example: I see Pall has written a bunch and this one in particular has quite a few "sus" comments: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29573716/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29573716/ The article is a meta study but there are several comments from the authors of the original studies indicating that they believe Pall did not interpret their study correctly.

daneel_w 3y ago

For those who read and understand these publishings, are there any indications of roughly what wattage (and distance from such transmitting antenna/panel) the EMF/EMR starts becoming a problem?

FollowingTheDao 3y ago
There’s a problem from looking at it from only a wattage perspective since whether the EMFs are pulse or not is also important. Also, the effect on any individual might be related to several variables, including genetics, current load of oxidative stress, or other exogenous factors. What they are trying to do is find people who truly have electromagnetic hypersensitivity syndrome and look at them for biological markers. They’re not solely interested in the power because they know there are variables that make people more sensitive than other people. This was found true in leukemia studies and overhead powerlines in the 90s. They found people with certain genetics that were more susceptible to leukemia from those low frequency EMFs.
- EdwardDiego 3y ago
  Really? Because IIRC, the relationship was more poverty related than actual EMF related. Living under powerlines is unattractive, so houses under powerlines attract people who can't afford to live elsewhere. But, if you've got citations on that one, I'll happily read them.
  - FollowingTheDao 3y ago
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ijc.27542 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ijc.27542
    - EdwardDiego 3y ago
      Cheers, that makes sense.