4 ms·

There is a fair chance that far right republicans disagree with the deal, and force McCarthy back to the negotiating table.

aww_dang 3y ago
[flagged]
- plagiarist 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - aww_dang 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - plagiarist 3y ago
      Deliberately pretending that all they want to do is limit government spending, or that that's why they're being called far right is a strawman. Not to mention the implicit theory that any of the far right are consistent with that from administration to administration. If you want comments that only add to the discussion without bad faith, start by reflecting on your own.
      - aww_dang 3y ago
        There's an error of generalization here. There are some who would cut budgets in either case. These are politicians who are generally characterized as far right in the media. https://rollcall.com/2019/06/03/sen-rand-pauls-austere-budget-plan-goes-down-in-senate/ https://rollcall.com/2019/06/03/sen-rand-pauls-austere-budge... https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/17/rand-paul-oppose-senate-gop-budget-243864 https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/17/rand-paul-oppose-s... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-massie-factbox/factbox-mr-no-meet-the-u-s-congressman-who-requested-a-formal-vote-to-delay-the-coronavirus-bill-idUSKBN21E26K https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-ma... There may be others, but these are two politicians who come to the top of my mind. However, generally speaking there are many GOP members who are content to approve spending on their own partisan budgets. This is a well known issue. As for the accusation, "that's why they're being called far right" I had hoped to avoid this by stating, "I do not dispute the characterization..." The reasons why some are described as "far right" are beyond the scope of this discussion. I do not attribute motive. It is simply an observation of the status quo. They are described as far right here and elsewhere. They seek to limit the government's budget regardless of which way the pendulum is currently swinging. They maybe described as "far right" for any number of reasons. It is an entirely separate topic which could be debated at length. Perhaps you are projecting your own elaborate ideas, partisan biases and expectations into what was a simple and concise statement? Furthermore, you assume we should all implicitly understand your accusations and their frame of reference. Only by elaborating on why you feel it is a straw-man are we able to discuss this. Without elaboration we can only assume your intent, which more often that not leads to even more projection and partisan caricatures. Another interesting ambiguity is "semi-sophisticated". It could have meant that HN was too sophisticated for the stawman you alleged. Perhaps it meant that HN isn't sophisticated enough to read the sentence without inflammatory nonsense. I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.
        plagiarist 3y ago
        You started in bad faith pretending that "cutting the budget" is the sole reason these actors are being called far right. There is no purpose to your comment otherwise. Were you literally writing, "I agree these are far right, but I disagree they are being called far right at this time?" That's seriously your response here? Hint: the "adding to the discussion" principle you hold so dear applies to yourself as well. It may indeed be an error to assume the HN audience is sophisticated enough to recognize bad faith comments, obvious political bias, or even logical fallacy given some of the authors it contains.
        aww_dang 3y ago
        >You started in bad faith pretending that "cutting the budget" is the sole reason these actors are being called far right. To repeat: You read that, I didn't write that. Is there anyone who has not been characterized as "far right" who wants to shrink the overall size of the Federal budget?
        dang 3y ago
        Please avoid flamewars on HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        dang 3y ago
        Please avoid flamewars on HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - dffdsa432 3y ago
    [flagged]
- tzs 3y ago
  It is because people on the right who are not "far right" who want to limit the government's budget approach it by trying to actually limit the budget. The debt ceiling does not limit the budget. It limits taking on debt to satisfy obligations from past budgets that are now coming due.
  - aww_dang 3y ago
    This is akin to saying, "Putting a limit on a credit card does not prohibit spending"
    - tzs 3y ago
      The debt ceiling isn't like a limit on a credit card. It's like a limit on how much you can pay toward your credit card bill.
      - aww_dang 3y ago
        I don't know how many recursive turtles you want. You have a debt obligation like a utility bill. You want to pay it with your credit card, but you can't because you are over the limit. The end result is you don't spend that money. Your spending is limited, by the debt limit.
        jmckib 3y ago
        Let’s say you used your credit card to spend $1000 this month. The money is spent. At the end of the month it’s time to pay back the credit card company for the $1000 you spent, but you say: sorry, my debt limit is only $600, so you default on your debt and now your credit is ruined. That’s what the debt limit is like. Financial responsibility would be not spending the $1000 in the first place. It’s wildly irresponsible to spend the money and then decide not to pay the debt, but Republicans consistently threaten to do this because so many of their voters don’t understand what a debt limit is, mistakenly thinking it is a spending limit.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

aww_dang 3y ago

[flagged]

plagiarist 3y ago
[flagged]
- aww_dang 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - plagiarist 3y ago
    Deliberately pretending that all they want to do is limit government spending, or that that's why they're being called far right is a strawman. Not to mention the implicit theory that any of the far right are consistent with that from administration to administration. If you want comments that only add to the discussion without bad faith, start by reflecting on your own.
    - aww_dang 3y ago
      There's an error of generalization here. There are some who would cut budgets in either case. These are politicians who are generally characterized as far right in the media. https://rollcall.com/2019/06/03/sen-rand-pauls-austere-budget-plan-goes-down-in-senate/ https://rollcall.com/2019/06/03/sen-rand-pauls-austere-budge... https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/17/rand-paul-oppose-senate-gop-budget-243864 https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/17/rand-paul-oppose-s... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-massie-factbox/factbox-mr-no-meet-the-u-s-congressman-who-requested-a-formal-vote-to-delay-the-coronavirus-bill-idUSKBN21E26K https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-ma... There may be others, but these are two politicians who come to the top of my mind. However, generally speaking there are many GOP members who are content to approve spending on their own partisan budgets. This is a well known issue. As for the accusation, "that's why they're being called far right" I had hoped to avoid this by stating, "I do not dispute the characterization..." The reasons why some are described as "far right" are beyond the scope of this discussion. I do not attribute motive. It is simply an observation of the status quo. They are described as far right here and elsewhere. They seek to limit the government's budget regardless of which way the pendulum is currently swinging. They maybe described as "far right" for any number of reasons. It is an entirely separate topic which could be debated at length. Perhaps you are projecting your own elaborate ideas, partisan biases and expectations into what was a simple and concise statement? Furthermore, you assume we should all implicitly understand your accusations and their frame of reference. Only by elaborating on why you feel it is a straw-man are we able to discuss this. Without elaboration we can only assume your intent, which more often that not leads to even more projection and partisan caricatures. Another interesting ambiguity is "semi-sophisticated". It could have meant that HN was too sophisticated for the stawman you alleged. Perhaps it meant that HN isn't sophisticated enough to read the sentence without inflammatory nonsense. I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.
      - plagiarist 3y ago
        You started in bad faith pretending that "cutting the budget" is the sole reason these actors are being called far right. There is no purpose to your comment otherwise. Were you literally writing, "I agree these are far right, but I disagree they are being called far right at this time?" That's seriously your response here? Hint: the "adding to the discussion" principle you hold so dear applies to yourself as well. It may indeed be an error to assume the HN audience is sophisticated enough to recognize bad faith comments, obvious political bias, or even logical fallacy given some of the authors it contains.
        aww_dang 3y ago
        >You started in bad faith pretending that "cutting the budget" is the sole reason these actors are being called far right. To repeat: You read that, I didn't write that. Is there anyone who has not been characterized as "far right" who wants to shrink the overall size of the Federal budget?
        dang 3y ago
        Please avoid flamewars on HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        dang 3y ago
        Please avoid flamewars on HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dffdsa432 3y ago
  [flagged]
tzs 3y ago
It is because people on the right who are not "far right" who want to limit the government's budget approach it by trying to actually limit the budget. The debt ceiling does not limit the budget. It limits taking on debt to satisfy obligations from past budgets that are now coming due.
- aww_dang 3y ago
  This is akin to saying, "Putting a limit on a credit card does not prohibit spending"
  - tzs 3y ago
    The debt ceiling isn't like a limit on a credit card. It's like a limit on how much you can pay toward your credit card bill.
    - aww_dang 3y ago
      I don't know how many recursive turtles you want. You have a debt obligation like a utility bill. You want to pay it with your credit card, but you can't because you are over the limit. The end result is you don't spend that money. Your spending is limited, by the debt limit.
      - jmckib 3y ago
        Let’s say you used your credit card to spend $1000 this month. The money is spent. At the end of the month it’s time to pay back the credit card company for the $1000 you spent, but you say: sorry, my debt limit is only $600, so you default on your debt and now your credit is ruined. That’s what the debt limit is like. Financial responsibility would be not spending the $1000 in the first place. It’s wildly irresponsible to spend the money and then decide not to pay the debt, but Republicans consistently threaten to do this because so many of their voters don’t understand what a debt limit is, mistakenly thinking it is a spending limit.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]