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The US has Guantanamo Bay. Among others. The US did commit various war crimes in about every of their foreign engagements. Those had to be leaked of course and

The US has Guantanamo Bay. Among others. The US did commit various war crimes in about every of their foreign engagements. Those had to be leaked of course and weren't reported by some self-correction built into the system. The US uses false narratives like "national security" to justify unjustifiable actions regularly. See their economic sanctions, Huawei, etc. pp. The list goes on of course. Now, the one thing clearly better about the US is, people being able to talk about it. But that only has meaning if it is done and actually leads to changes. Else it is only another layer of deception.

mrcode007 3y ago
The huawei sanctions are a result of the origins of the company. Many people forget or never knew about the hacks that happened over 10 years ago https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nortel-collapse-linked-to-chinese-hackers-1.1260591 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nortel-collapse-linked-to-c... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-07-01/did-china-steal-canada-s-edge-in-5g-from-nortel?sref=9GiFaIMD&utm_source=website&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=mobile_web_share https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-07-01/did-china...
hutzlibu 3y ago
"Else it is only another layer of deception." There is still a great difference between mainstream media and politicians avoiding certain topics and police activly supressing knowledge about historical events and rewriting history as they see fit (tiananmen square). And completely banning Winnie Pooh, because some internet dudes made a funny picture.
FormerBandmate 3y ago
Guantanamo Bay is thousands of times smaller in magnitude than putting millions of your own citizens in concentration camps. It's also reprehensible and should be closed, no one disagrees on that
- theaussiestew 3y ago
  There are NOT millions of people in “camps” in China, that’s a bizarre claim made by some so called researchers like Adrian Zenz. 1000s or 10,000s at most. And do you even know what the rationale for these so called “camps” are for?
  - acdha 3y ago
    Do you have any citations for that dismissal? Multiple researchers have the Uyghurs on the order of a million people, plus something like half that number of children separated from their families into boarding schools, and the primary reason for the decline in camp population being the preferential switch to forced labor programs rather than giving up on the genocide.
- saiya-jin 3y ago
  Maybe, but now we are discussing scales of evil and not whether evil is actually done. Moral superiority is effectively lost. Also, this is nothing compared to millions of deaths due to wars and entire vast regions fucked up badly for generations. In that aspect, US is much worse than Russia or China, if we check past few decades (which is way more relevant for present than judgling last 200-500 years). It pains me to say that, because I strongly align most of my values with US ones in this world, but this is fucking horrible and cant be ignored or marginalized. All done for profit of few since day 1.
  - badpun 3y ago
    > Also, this is nothing compared to millions of deaths due to wars and entire vast regions fucked up badly for generations. In that aspect, US is much worse than Russia or China, if we check past few decades (which is way more relevant for present than judgling last 200-500 years). The hundreds of millions of people who lived under Soviet communism (entire Eastern Europe, South East Europe, Central Asia) are fucked badly for generations.
roenxi 3y ago
Even beyond the war crimes; just the wars themselves. The WMD thing in Iraq is nice because not only was the war flimsily justified, but that justification itself was a lie. However, a lot of the other wars are just bizarre. Taking Afghanistan - the costs, suffering caused and damage to the global economy are completely absurd. Nothing was achieved. There isn't any reason for someone in the US to even feel better after that debacle. The decision makers had to know that was what they were triggering, they did it anyway and many of them are still treated like reasonable choices for leadership positions. That decision making was worse than anything Russia or China did, it was just pointless killing and destruction.
- anon____ 3y ago
  The cost of one party is the profit of the other. What was that money spent on? Weapons, ammunition, vehicles, food and clothes and other stuff for the soldiers. Someone sold that stuff, and those people needed these wars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_complex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_co...
merman 3y ago
What you are trying to do is called whataboutism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#:~:text=Whataboutism%20or%20whataboutery%20(as%20in,which%20expresses%20a%20counter%2Daccusation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#:~:text=Whatabo....
- XorNot 3y ago
  Look up "false equivalency" next. And then "bad faith".

mrcode007 3y ago

The huawei sanctions are a result of the origins of the company. Many people forget or never knew about the hacks that happened over 10 years ago https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nortel-collapse-linked-to-chinese-hackers-1.1260591 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nortel-collapse-linked-to-c... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-07-01/did-china-steal-canada-s-edge-in-5g-from-nortel?sref=9GiFaIMD&utm_source=website&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=mobile_web_share https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-07-01/did-china...

hutzlibu 3y ago

"Else it is only another layer of deception." There is still a great difference between mainstream media and politicians avoiding certain topics and police activly supressing knowledge about historical events and rewriting history as they see fit (tiananmen square). And completely banning Winnie Pooh, because some internet dudes made a funny picture.

FormerBandmate 3y ago

Guantanamo Bay is thousands of times smaller in magnitude than putting millions of your own citizens in concentration camps. It's also reprehensible and should be closed, no one disagrees on that

theaussiestew 3y ago
There are NOT millions of people in “camps” in China, that’s a bizarre claim made by some so called researchers like Adrian Zenz. 1000s or 10,000s at most. And do you even know what the rationale for these so called “camps” are for?
- acdha 3y ago
  Do you have any citations for that dismissal? Multiple researchers have the Uyghurs on the order of a million people, plus something like half that number of children separated from their families into boarding schools, and the primary reason for the decline in camp population being the preferential switch to forced labor programs rather than giving up on the genocide.
saiya-jin 3y ago
Maybe, but now we are discussing scales of evil and not whether evil is actually done. Moral superiority is effectively lost. Also, this is nothing compared to millions of deaths due to wars and entire vast regions fucked up badly for generations. In that aspect, US is much worse than Russia or China, if we check past few decades (which is way more relevant for present than judgling last 200-500 years). It pains me to say that, because I strongly align most of my values with US ones in this world, but this is fucking horrible and cant be ignored or marginalized. All done for profit of few since day 1.
- badpun 3y ago
  > Also, this is nothing compared to millions of deaths due to wars and entire vast regions fucked up badly for generations. In that aspect, US is much worse than Russia or China, if we check past few decades (which is way more relevant for present than judgling last 200-500 years). The hundreds of millions of people who lived under Soviet communism (entire Eastern Europe, South East Europe, Central Asia) are fucked badly for generations.

roenxi 3y ago

Even beyond the war crimes; just the wars themselves. The WMD thing in Iraq is nice because not only was the war flimsily justified, but that justification itself was a lie. However, a lot of the other wars are just bizarre. Taking Afghanistan - the costs, suffering caused and damage to the global economy are completely absurd. Nothing was achieved. There isn't any reason for someone in the US to even feel better after that debacle. The decision makers had to know that was what they were triggering, they did it anyway and many of them are still treated like reasonable choices for leadership positions. That decision making was worse than anything Russia or China did, it was just pointless killing and destruction.

anon____ 3y ago
The cost of one party is the profit of the other. What was that money spent on? Weapons, ammunition, vehicles, food and clothes and other stuff for the soldiers. Someone sold that stuff, and those people needed these wars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_complex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_co...

merman 3y ago

What you are trying to do is called whataboutism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#:~:text=Whataboutism%20or%20whataboutery%20(as%20in,which%20expresses%20a%20counter%2Daccusation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#:~:text=Whatabo....

XorNot 3y ago
Look up "false equivalency" next. And then "bad faith".