6 ms·

>Gibson said the phones are a security backstop in the case of an emergency that "takes out communications" in part of America. Ummm, what about the rest of us

by rapjr9 3y ago

>Gibson said the phones are a security backstop in the case of an emergency that "takes out communications" in part of America. Ummm, what about the rest of us? Large scale emergency preparations in the USA fell to the wayside long ago. Maybe the new satellite messaging features just starting to roll out would help, although I doubt they have been tested at scale with tens of millions of people trying to use them at the same time.

poorUs 3y ago
What do you mean what about us? We got what we wanted; tech jobs, new phones each year, all the anime, Marvel, and Star Wars content we can stomach! If the public wanted security and sustainability it should have acted less like a drunk in a whore house.
LinuxBender 3y ago
If cost isn't an issue there are existing commercial satellite phones and phone services that have been around for quite some time see Iridium, Inmarsat, GlobalStar. Or if you want a middle-of-the-road option so to speak there is Garmin InReach service that would allow texting via the Iridium satellite network. In this case the officials are being issued phones. Some companies issue phones to employees. If your job is critical during a catastrophic event then your company should issue you a satellite phone. Perhaps corporations could get bulk discounts. Each neighborhood's CERT team should maybe invest in at least one phone to text others. Of course if they are planning for a full scale nuclear exchange then those options may be useless when the different layers of the atmosphere are charged. HAM radio operators or even CB radios may be more useful for local communications. Long distance would require a courier and a lot of bottle caps. I have no idea what they are actually planning for. Perhaps EMP floated in on a few balloons that takes out power continent wide? Overload of the power grid? [1] Halting all petroleum imports and re-shuffling the locally produced fuel transport networks? Go 100% green in 2024? [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36097173 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36097173
- mikem170 3y ago
  > I have no idea what they are actually planning for. The article said: > The devices are part of a series of new security measures being offered to senators by the Senate Sergeant at Arms, who took over shortly after the assault on the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. I assume they figure that the next insurrection may involve the loss of cellular communications, which is reasonable to expect from a decent coup attempt. The authorities might plan on jamming cell phones themselves, want to deprive the insurgents that communication channel.
  - LinuxBender 3y ago
    I did read that but just assumed it was hyperbole. Jan 6 was some broken windows and doors. [Edit] And some people got hurt though I expect this in a big riot A few militia members had weapons but nothing high-tech and most despite being dressed up as soldiers had no combat experience. They had been planning that incursion for over a year on a public audio blog. I think the only real surprise was that the militia that normally wore Hawaiian shirts were not wearing them. Journalists from Frontline had been embedded with a few of the militias for a year leading up to the event and they had been coordinating with POTUS the entire time. These guys were not qualified or capable enough to cause a wide spread cellular outage.
    - mikem170 3y ago
      But what happened on January 6 was enough that representatives had to flee. The people responsible for security would want to address the possibility of something like this, or worse, occurring in the future. Why would they not respond to this with improvements? Security forces have their own separate communications, it makes sense for representatives to be reachable in an emergency also. January 6 may have been a reminder of that, at the least.
      - LinuxBender 3y ago
        Why would they not respond to this with improvements? They had every opportunity to improve the situation by having the nation guard present. They were offered and declined. That small contingency of capitol police would have be overwhelmed by a Walmart super-sale stampede and it was not fair to make them absorb the known incoming riot. That is why it does not surprise me that the police let many of the rioters in without resistance on one side of the building. Those that resisted were easily overwhelmed. If anything I feel bad for those cops that were put in harms way. The incident was avoidable or at very least the national guard could have quickly asserted control. It was also not cool making the national guard members sleep in a cold parking garage. Most guard members were not dressed for sleeping in a garage in 20-30F weather.
rightbyte 3y ago
I got a feeling satellite phones wont help them, unless they prepare for getting lost on a hike to some forest. Like, who are you going to call. Their phones are not working either.
- fragmede 3y ago
  I suspect the US Army has a satellite phone or two, and I bet senators have the phone numbers of a general or two.
perardi 3y ago
Well, you better be ready to pay up. Which is the inherent problem here. Creating a robust, well-tested emergency satellite comms system that nobody uses day to day costs a lot of money to develop and maintain…and nobody wants to pay for that.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  A 300 min annual prepaid plan with Iridium, retail rate, is ~$1400/year. Assuming no government discounts, you're looking at probably less than $2M-$3M in phone costs for 535 members of Congress and first year service, with <$2M/year service upkeep. I assume it would be relatively straightforward to onboard another part of government assuming existing awards, based on my experience with US government contracting. https://www.usaspending.gov/recipient/586ca912-a43c-d9a3-fbd4-d5c1b9357dd4-P/latest https://www.usaspending.gov/recipient/586ca912-a43c-d9a3-fbd...
sliken 3y ago
Get some FRS radio (walky talky type) in a bubble pack, maybe get a few extras for neighbors, and befriend your local ham. Talk to neighbors about emergency plans so you can coordinate helping the needy, tracking water/food deliveries, and making sure those in need get their meds. Cheap/disposable radioes are good enough for talking to local neighbors and the ham can handle communications across the state, country, or even world if necessary. After all in many emergencies the people you want to talk are local and likely don't have a sat phone. Most cities have radio nets where they go over emergency plans for whatever earthquake/storm/fire emergencies are relevant. Often they help out with local events like bike/horse/marathon races that go outside the bounds of cell reception.
i2cmaster 3y ago
IMO: HAMs will likely be more helpful than these will. This is more of the result of professional confusion/processes etc.
hulitu 3y ago
> Ummm, what about the rest of us? You will have to fight for your country. / s
giantg2 3y ago
"Large scale emergency preparations in the USA fell to the wayside long ago." Not really. The preparations have shifted a little. It seems the government doesn't want to really encourage individuals to prepare the same way it did during the cold War, and to a certain point many individuals wouldn't care to anyways. I'd imagine a lot of that is to increase the reliance in the government and limit the number of people who have the resources to radicalize. The government still stockpiles emergency response medications and has plans to distribute them. FEMA has all sorts of resources including COWs (cell on wheels) for communication. But really, communications are secondary for ordinary citizens. You'll still have emergency services who can communicate, hams (including RACE), and stuff like that. They're more worried about food, water, shelter, meds, and order. On the personal side, we can just look at early covid. People were freaking out and panick buying. It wasn't a big deal for my family. We were raised to have about 2-4 weeks worth of food on hand and just rotate your stock as you buy new stuff. Whether it's a pandemic, storm, production issue, or attack, it's pretty good advice. It can even help if you lose your income suddenly.

by rapjr9 3y ago

poorUs 3y ago

What do you mean what about us? We got what we wanted; tech jobs, new phones each year, all the anime, Marvel, and Star Wars content we can stomach! If the public wanted security and sustainability it should have acted less like a drunk in a whore house.

LinuxBender 3y ago

If cost isn't an issue there are existing commercial satellite phones and phone services that have been around for quite some time see Iridium, Inmarsat, GlobalStar. Or if you want a middle-of-the-road option so to speak there is Garmin InReach service that would allow texting via the Iridium satellite network. In this case the officials are being issued phones. Some companies issue phones to employees. If your job is critical during a catastrophic event then your company should issue you a satellite phone. Perhaps corporations could get bulk discounts. Each neighborhood's CERT team should maybe invest in at least one phone to text others. Of course if they are planning for a full scale nuclear exchange then those options may be useless when the different layers of the atmosphere are charged. HAM radio operators or even CB radios may be more useful for local communications. Long distance would require a courier and a lot of bottle caps. I have no idea what they are actually planning for. Perhaps EMP floated in on a few balloons that takes out power continent wide? Overload of the power grid? [1] Halting all petroleum imports and re-shuffling the locally produced fuel transport networks? Go 100% green in 2024? [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36097173 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36097173

mikem170 3y ago
> I have no idea what they are actually planning for. The article said: > The devices are part of a series of new security measures being offered to senators by the Senate Sergeant at Arms, who took over shortly after the assault on the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. I assume they figure that the next insurrection may involve the loss of cellular communications, which is reasonable to expect from a decent coup attempt. The authorities might plan on jamming cell phones themselves, want to deprive the insurgents that communication channel.
- LinuxBender 3y ago
  I did read that but just assumed it was hyperbole. Jan 6 was some broken windows and doors. [Edit] And some people got hurt though I expect this in a big riot A few militia members had weapons but nothing high-tech and most despite being dressed up as soldiers had no combat experience. They had been planning that incursion for over a year on a public audio blog. I think the only real surprise was that the militia that normally wore Hawaiian shirts were not wearing them. Journalists from Frontline had been embedded with a few of the militias for a year leading up to the event and they had been coordinating with POTUS the entire time. These guys were not qualified or capable enough to cause a wide spread cellular outage.
  - mikem170 3y ago
    But what happened on January 6 was enough that representatives had to flee. The people responsible for security would want to address the possibility of something like this, or worse, occurring in the future. Why would they not respond to this with improvements? Security forces have their own separate communications, it makes sense for representatives to be reachable in an emergency also. January 6 may have been a reminder of that, at the least.
    - LinuxBender 3y ago
      Why would they not respond to this with improvements? They had every opportunity to improve the situation by having the nation guard present. They were offered and declined. That small contingency of capitol police would have be overwhelmed by a Walmart super-sale stampede and it was not fair to make them absorb the known incoming riot. That is why it does not surprise me that the police let many of the rioters in without resistance on one side of the building. Those that resisted were easily overwhelmed. If anything I feel bad for those cops that were put in harms way. The incident was avoidable or at very least the national guard could have quickly asserted control. It was also not cool making the national guard members sleep in a cold parking garage. Most guard members were not dressed for sleeping in a garage in 20-30F weather.

rightbyte 3y ago

I got a feeling satellite phones wont help them, unless they prepare for getting lost on a hike to some forest. Like, who are you going to call. Their phones are not working either.

fragmede 3y ago
I suspect the US Army has a satellite phone or two, and I bet senators have the phone numbers of a general or two.

perardi 3y ago

Well, you better be ready to pay up. Which is the inherent problem here. Creating a robust, well-tested emergency satellite comms system that nobody uses day to day costs a lot of money to develop and maintain…and nobody wants to pay for that.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
A 300 min annual prepaid plan with Iridium, retail rate, is ~$1400/year. Assuming no government discounts, you're looking at probably less than $2M-$3M in phone costs for 535 members of Congress and first year service, with <$2M/year service upkeep. I assume it would be relatively straightforward to onboard another part of government assuming existing awards, based on my experience with US government contracting. https://www.usaspending.gov/recipient/586ca912-a43c-d9a3-fbd4-d5c1b9357dd4-P/latest https://www.usaspending.gov/recipient/586ca912-a43c-d9a3-fbd...

sliken 3y ago

Get some FRS radio (walky talky type) in a bubble pack, maybe get a few extras for neighbors, and befriend your local ham. Talk to neighbors about emergency plans so you can coordinate helping the needy, tracking water/food deliveries, and making sure those in need get their meds. Cheap/disposable radioes are good enough for talking to local neighbors and the ham can handle communications across the state, country, or even world if necessary. After all in many emergencies the people you want to talk are local and likely don't have a sat phone. Most cities have radio nets where they go over emergency plans for whatever earthquake/storm/fire emergencies are relevant. Often they help out with local events like bike/horse/marathon races that go outside the bounds of cell reception.

i2cmaster 3y ago

IMO: HAMs will likely be more helpful than these will. This is more of the result of professional confusion/processes etc.

hulitu 3y ago

> Ummm, what about the rest of us? You will have to fight for your country. / s

giantg2 3y ago

"Large scale emergency preparations in the USA fell to the wayside long ago." Not really. The preparations have shifted a little. It seems the government doesn't want to really encourage individuals to prepare the same way it did during the cold War, and to a certain point many individuals wouldn't care to anyways. I'd imagine a lot of that is to increase the reliance in the government and limit the number of people who have the resources to radicalize. The government still stockpiles emergency response medications and has plans to distribute them. FEMA has all sorts of resources including COWs (cell on wheels) for communication. But really, communications are secondary for ordinary citizens. You'll still have emergency services who can communicate, hams (including RACE), and stuff like that. They're more worried about food, water, shelter, meds, and order. On the personal side, we can just look at early covid. People were freaking out and panick buying. It wasn't a big deal for my family. We were raised to have about 2-4 weeks worth of food on hand and just rotate your stock as you buy new stuff. Whether it's a pandemic, storm, production issue, or attack, it's pretty good advice. It can even help if you lose your income suddenly.