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nobody is going to be stuck in their 80 years old body. this is the extremely short version/recipe to leave forever: 1. clone yourself. work with this guy who

nobody is going to be stuck in their 80 years old body. this is the extremely short version/recipe to leave forever: 1. clone yourself. work with this guy who is very close to succeed [1] 2. once your clone is 25 years old and therefore stop growing, undergo a brain translation. Now, before you start laughing look here: [2] This is Dr. White [3] undergoing successful monkey brain transplantation in... seventies! I think 40 years later technology got much more advanced. So the result would be your 80 years old brain (assume it was still quite healthy) in 100% matching DNA body of 25 year old. IF you don't get brain cancer, or other brain disease, you have another 50, 80 years to go. Now, going further only certain parts of the brain makes up for your identity. Most likely only memory. Fast forward another 40 years in the future, knowing how to connect broken nerves again why not cut only small part of your brain that is you therefore transplanting only your identity and limiting size of your old body in the new one. Now, you can call me a conspiracy theorist, but if to overcome problems here is just a matter of time (by that I mean more time == less money + less engineers working on the problem. less time to resolve problem == more money to throw at the research + more engineers working on it), then I believe it is fairly plausible that elites like Rothschild family having billions of dollars for their disposition already have these technology available. Just ask yourself -- if you already have trillions in the bank, and building another successful company or buying another factory is boring to you AND the same time the only thing you are sure of is that one day you are gonna die, then it is obvious you will spend all your resources to "postpone the judgment". [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panayiotis_Zavos http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panayiotis_Zavos [2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb3Zi0DenaE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb3Zi0DenaE [viewers discretion advised] [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_J._White http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_J._White * I didnt want to go into the obvious legal issues here: cloning humans, "stealing" someones body, putting another "human" in 80 years old body therefore shorting their life, etc.

loup-vaillant 15y ago
I hope everyone do see the implication of creating a soul, then kill it 25 years later? Possibly repeatedly? That sounds almost as bad as a horcrux.
- jaaron 15y ago
  Would you feel different if the cloned body (or body parts) were grown in a fashion such that it was never intelligent or aware? Such as without a full brain or even without a head? Would it then be a soul?
  - joering2 15y ago
    Thats why I didnt want to mention that or answer to loup. I didnt not wanted to end up with religion debate on whether there is God and Soul, and if Soul can be transferred etc. This was pure speculation on how to live forever. That is, if you could live happily ever after knowing you tricked your twin-brother/sister and gave him falling apart body with a 5 years life-expectancy. We are getting really into science fiction now. Perhaps if you could somehow monitor and capture every single signal sent from human brain to its body from the moment brain formed itself (I know there is a flaw here...), then if you could record that transmission for 25 years, perhaps (Im really in year 2350 now, I think) you could program a computer that would re-play that transmission into a growing body (to mimic brain) and as a result at age 25 had a healthy body without human brain. This, I think, would cut-off all skeptics that believe Soul is attached to mind, not body itself.
    - loup-vaillant 15y ago
      Maybe I shouldn't have use the word "soul". My vision is, we do not have souls, we are souls. Body + Brain = Soul, so to speak. Death is when that soul is irrevocably destroyed (meaning, even the information required to reconstruct it is lost forever). So, while convoluted, your solution sounds like it is acceptable. Be careful however to play a record of a past life, instead of, say, actually simulating a brain in a silicon chip, Gunm style. Because that simulation would most certainly be a soul as well (I don't believe in philosophical zombies).
      - loup-vaillant 15y ago
        Err… I don't get the downvotes… feedback please? Edit: nevermind.
jdavid 15y ago
Sounds like the movie 'The Island' I will politely disagree with your premise.
felipemnoa 15y ago
I think I rather be uploaded to a virtual reality environment with the ability to download to humanoid robots almost identical to the human body such that the difference in perception is almost negligible. The robots should be identical to the human body at least skin deep. Our skin could be a synthetic material very close to the real thing. We will need none of the organs that currently keep us alive.
- joering2 15y ago
  thats very interesting. I dont know what you mean by "rather be uploaded" (I guess you mean your conscious, which sounds just too much of a science-fiction to me since AFAIK we dont exactly know what makes us us and makes us aware we are we) but you made me think about other possibility: instead of stealing someones 100% matching DNAs body, why not to transplant your brain into the machine? Of course this is is still pure science fiction but if we could overcome all difficulties, I could see a robot body totally controlled by your brain. It would be some sort of control-by-wire thing. Your brain sends a signal to lift an arm, computer attached to it recognizes it and replace it with gauged signal that is being sent to your arm. If we could only know how to mimic signals that lets us see or hear or smell ([1] for example) we could have a fully working mechanical body. Then the only risk of dying would be brain injury or disease; nothing else could kill you. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_prosthesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_prosthesis ok, eot for me. ok hang on: second though: I am not sure if I would gave up on a please of fng for an eternity without it :) edit: so it boils down to question: how long can brain live, given we provide it perfect conditions (lets say: pure perfectly controlled air, all the vitamins it needs in regulated doses, etc etc)
  - felipemnoa 15y ago
    I was thinking more around the lines of converting the brain connections to software i.e. Scanning the brain and creating a software representation of it. Then put it in a brain simulator (This is a very simplistic example, it will be far more complicated than this). If we can do this then we should be able to replicate everything else, touch, smell, taste. Essentially we would become an artificial intelligent being with the potential to live forever.
phillmv 15y ago
Not interested. I really don't give a shit if my ego continues to survive forever. I only care about this particular instantiation because under my (to be frank, likely to be flawed) interpretation this is the only "I" I ever perceive. This gets more complicated because we don't have any guarantees on the continuity of consciousness as it is (when you awoke this morning, are you still the "same" person?)… but barring any more cogent arguments I'm gonna stick to it.

loup-vaillant 15y ago

I hope everyone do see the implication of creating a soul, then kill it 25 years later? Possibly repeatedly? That sounds almost as bad as a horcrux.

jaaron 15y ago
Would you feel different if the cloned body (or body parts) were grown in a fashion such that it was never intelligent or aware? Such as without a full brain or even without a head? Would it then be a soul?
- joering2 15y ago
  Thats why I didnt want to mention that or answer to loup. I didnt not wanted to end up with religion debate on whether there is God and Soul, and if Soul can be transferred etc. This was pure speculation on how to live forever. That is, if you could live happily ever after knowing you tricked your twin-brother/sister and gave him falling apart body with a 5 years life-expectancy. We are getting really into science fiction now. Perhaps if you could somehow monitor and capture every single signal sent from human brain to its body from the moment brain formed itself (I know there is a flaw here...), then if you could record that transmission for 25 years, perhaps (Im really in year 2350 now, I think) you could program a computer that would re-play that transmission into a growing body (to mimic brain) and as a result at age 25 had a healthy body without human brain. This, I think, would cut-off all skeptics that believe Soul is attached to mind, not body itself.
  - loup-vaillant 15y ago
    Maybe I shouldn't have use the word "soul". My vision is, we do not have souls, we are souls. Body + Brain = Soul, so to speak. Death is when that soul is irrevocably destroyed (meaning, even the information required to reconstruct it is lost forever). So, while convoluted, your solution sounds like it is acceptable. Be careful however to play a record of a past life, instead of, say, actually simulating a brain in a silicon chip, Gunm style. Because that simulation would most certainly be a soul as well (I don't believe in philosophical zombies).
    - loup-vaillant 15y ago
      Err… I don't get the downvotes… feedback please? Edit: nevermind.

jdavid 15y ago

Sounds like the movie 'The Island' I will politely disagree with your premise.

felipemnoa 15y ago

I think I rather be uploaded to a virtual reality environment with the ability to download to humanoid robots almost identical to the human body such that the difference in perception is almost negligible. The robots should be identical to the human body at least skin deep. Our skin could be a synthetic material very close to the real thing. We will need none of the organs that currently keep us alive.

joering2 15y ago
thats very interesting. I dont know what you mean by "rather be uploaded" (I guess you mean your conscious, which sounds just too much of a science-fiction to me since AFAIK we dont exactly know what makes us us and makes us aware we are we) but you made me think about other possibility: instead of stealing someones 100% matching DNAs body, why not to transplant your brain into the machine? Of course this is is still pure science fiction but if we could overcome all difficulties, I could see a robot body totally controlled by your brain. It would be some sort of control-by-wire thing. Your brain sends a signal to lift an arm, computer attached to it recognizes it and replace it with gauged signal that is being sent to your arm. If we could only know how to mimic signals that lets us see or hear or smell ([1] for example) we could have a fully working mechanical body. Then the only risk of dying would be brain injury or disease; nothing else could kill you. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_prosthesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_prosthesis ok, eot for me. ok hang on: second though: I am not sure if I would gave up on a please of fng for an eternity without it :) edit: so it boils down to question: how long can brain live, given we provide it perfect conditions (lets say: pure perfectly controlled air, all the vitamins it needs in regulated doses, etc etc)
- felipemnoa 15y ago
  I was thinking more around the lines of converting the brain connections to software i.e. Scanning the brain and creating a software representation of it. Then put it in a brain simulator (This is a very simplistic example, it will be far more complicated than this). If we can do this then we should be able to replicate everything else, touch, smell, taste. Essentially we would become an artificial intelligent being with the potential to live forever.

phillmv 15y ago

Not interested. I really don't give a shit if my ego continues to survive forever. I only care about this particular instantiation because under my (to be frank, likely to be flawed) interpretation this is the only "I" I ever perceive. This gets more complicated because we don't have any guarantees on the continuity of consciousness as it is (when you awoke this morning, are you still the "same" person?)… but barring any more cogent arguments I'm gonna stick to it.