3 ms·

Isn't that a false dichotomy and a strawman?

lelanthran 3y ago
> Isn't that a false dichotomy and a strawman? I don't see how. There's no dichotomy that I am aware of; when responding to a "safety" argument, demonstrating the relative safety compared to activities considered "safe" is not a dichotomy. I also don't see a strawman - I'm making no argument, which is a requirement for making a strawman argument. If I don't make an argument, I can't be attacking a strawman.
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  It felt like you were arguing the people aren't worried about the safety of swimming pools around children or that we should leave aside the worry about firearms in favour of worrying about swimming pools. But in a discussion about swimming pool safety mechanisms I'm sure we would also see people giving their views on what they consider reasonable precaution for themselves. We can worry about both things and give them both time is what I'm saying.
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    > But in a discussion about swimming pool safety mechanisms I'm sure we would also see people giving their views on what they consider reasonable precaution for themselves. I've never seen a call to ban pools based on the mortality rate of children. > We can worry about both things and give them both time is what I'm saying. We can but we don't. We only see safety used as an argument for banning firearms, not as an argument for banning pools. Now, I'm not making any argument one way or another regarding banning of firearms, what I am doing, and what I started this thread with, was to point out that everything is a trade-off. We trade higher deaths for swimming pools that serve no purpose other than recreation. Trading fewer deaths for something that has non-recreational utility is not logically sound or consistent. IOW, it only makes sense to someone already emotionall married to their argument.
    - AlecSchueler 3y ago
      Ah, then you'd have to consider the huge emotional difference between a gun death and a swimming accident. It's not only the deaths we want to avoid but also the trauma.

> Isn't that a false dichotomy and a strawman? I don't see how. There's no dichotomy that I am aware of; when responding to a "safety" argument, demonstrating the relative safety compared to activities considered "safe" is not a dichotomy. I also don't see a strawman - I'm making no argument, which is a requirement for making a strawman argument. If I don't make an argument, I can't be attacking a strawman.

AlecSchueler 3y ago
It felt like you were arguing the people aren't worried about the safety of swimming pools around children or that we should leave aside the worry about firearms in favour of worrying about swimming pools. But in a discussion about swimming pool safety mechanisms I'm sure we would also see people giving their views on what they consider reasonable precaution for themselves. We can worry about both things and give them both time is what I'm saying.
- lelanthran 3y ago
  > But in a discussion about swimming pool safety mechanisms I'm sure we would also see people giving their views on what they consider reasonable precaution for themselves. I've never seen a call to ban pools based on the mortality rate of children. > We can worry about both things and give them both time is what I'm saying. We can but we don't. We only see safety used as an argument for banning firearms, not as an argument for banning pools. Now, I'm not making any argument one way or another regarding banning of firearms, what I am doing, and what I started this thread with, was to point out that everything is a trade-off. We trade higher deaths for swimming pools that serve no purpose other than recreation. Trading fewer deaths for something that has non-recreational utility is not logically sound or consistent. IOW, it only makes sense to someone already emotionall married to their argument.
  - AlecSchueler 3y ago
    Ah, then you'd have to consider the huge emotional difference between a gun death and a swimming accident. It's not only the deaths we want to avoid but also the trauma.