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One of the things that isn’t talked about enough in a reasonable and calm way is the impact COVID can have on the immune system long term. It’s talked about in
by DantesKite 3y ago
One of the things that isn’t talked about enough in a reasonable and calm way is the impact COVID can have on the immune system long term.
It’s talked about in terms of Long COVID and whether or not it’s psychosomatic, the policies made during the lockdowns, and so forth, but always with so much emotion, and sometimes for good reason. I don’t want to dismiss that or trivialize it. Those are important topics to discuss for how we’ll handle future pandemics.
But the evidence is accumulating that COVID does seem to impact CD8+ T cells, causing T cell exhaustion and reduced effector response. One running hypothesis is that the impaired immune response is caused by a persistent viral reservoir infection, particularly in the gut (although not all people show signs of a spike protein months after the initial infection) causing your CD8+ T cells to express more inhibitory receptors (similar to what happens in HIV or cancer with excessive and prolonged exposure to cancer cells).
Another hypothesis that is lesser known but I find particularly compelling is gut dysbiosis following a COVID infection causing a persistent immune activation that leads to T cell exhaustion or impaired T cell functionality especially through persistent activation of the dendritic cells (which are important for presenting antigens to the adaptive immune systems (i.e. T cells, B cells, etc)).
I think a researcher put it best when they said COVID is roughly halfway between HIV and the common cold in terms of the impact it has on the immune system. It may also not be accurate. We have to find out.
For context, think about how long it took to realize the Epstein Barr virus was a causal factor in multiple sclerosis. It took years of evidence collecting and data analysis to eliminate other confounding variables.
We shouldn’t rush to judgement or a narrative, but remain calm and dispassionate here and examine what’s going on, both for the virus, the vaccine, and the actions taken during the pandemic. It’s important we get it right.
- gtop3 3y ago> It’s important we get it right. I really want to echo this. We are talking about millions of lives a year right now, and basically every human has been infected. We need a solid answer for why some people have long term health impacts and others do not. There are many brilliant people working on this problem. Let's accept that this might actually be a complicated long term problem.
- momirlan 3y agonever been infected. maybe I'm not "basically" human
- spywaregorilla 3y ago> basically every human has been infected A majority, maybe. Certainly not "basically every human".
- lazide 3y agoKnow any sizable groups that haven’t been exposed? It’s pretty statistically unlikely at this point.
- tomrod 3y agoA lot of vaccinated folks, perhaps.
- lazide 3y agoSo vaccination stops you from being exposed? Pretty sure that's not true!
- spywaregorilla 3y agoExposed does not mean infected. That's an entirely different claim. Most people have probably been exposed. Further, I'm not claiming there are large homogenous groups that are unilaterally uninfected.
- Jabbles 3y agoPlease provide some citations.
- smeeth 3y agoIn the interest of being "calm and reasonable," I'd like to point out that some of the language you used in your third block might need a few caveats to be aligned with the state of the research. In particular: - "COVID does seem to impact CD8+ T cells": the adjustment I'd make here is that evidence exists that COVID *can* influence T cells, not that it always does. - "causing T cell exhaustion and reduced effector response.": a quick google suggests there is some conflicting evidence on this point, and most of the studies are done on t cell responses to vaccines delivered after infections, which is a very particular thing. It seems like you're drawing very heavily from Anthony Leonardi, who, while definitely a scientist and likely right about some things, isn't exactly someone with median (or emotionless) opinions on long covid. The HIV comparison in particular is really out there and unnecessary.
- saiya-jin 3y agoMe & my family had covid at least 6 times, possibly 7-8. It happens when you have small kids in kindergarten who yet don't grok concepts of sanitation. Very anecdotal, but no observed immunity impact. What I do, eat, train/workout, sleep, expose ie to cold etc. has much higher impact on immunity. Sure as hell hope that's also valid long term.
- terminatornet 3y agojeeze, save some for the rest of us!