5 ms·

Just by looking at the map there might be some correlation with vaccination rate.

by f6v 3y ago

draw_down 3y ago
[dead]
awestroke 3y ago
Yes, it's thoroughly documented that increasing vaccination rates decreases mortality rates
- Izkata 3y ago
  That would be a negative correlation. The map seems to indicate a positive correlation overall, negative correlation only if you ignore Africa and half of South America. (Eyeballing it side-by-side with the vaccination map here: https://fortune.com/2021/06/30/covid-vaccines-global-vaccination-rates-by-country/ https://fortune.com/2021/06/30/covid-vaccines-global-vaccina... )
  - roywiggins 3y ago
    Wealthy countries have way more old people, and way more vaccines. COVID is still more dangerous to elderly vaccinated people than to unvaccinated teenagers. You can sometimes even see this effect in one country, if all the old people are vaccinated and none of the young people are, you'll still probably get more COVID deaths per old person. If you just look at mortality by vaccination status you'll see lots more COVID deaths in the vaccinated cohort, but that's because the vaccinated cohort is just old.
    - nwienert 3y ago
      Why do you immediately jump to one conclusion as to explain this?
      - pessimizer 3y ago
        Probably because while it's a simple observation, it's not an intuitive one, so a lot of us had to have it pointed out recently. It's the nature of the math, not anything that has to do with covid or can be sensibly argued with.
        nwienert 3y ago
        Sure it’s something to take into your model, but I find the just so framing weirdly pressing in these types of threads.
    - revelio 3y ago
      [flagged]
  - croes 3y ago
    And if you ignore east Europe and north europe. East has low vaccination rates and high excess mortality, north has high vaccination rate and low excess deaths. Africa and South America could be different effects. I don't know how thoroughly they do, can or want to track excess deaths.
isoprophlex 3y ago
Big red splotch over Russia, and data includes 2022-2023... maybe there's also some other factor inducing excess death in Russians?
- ls612 3y ago
  The upper estimates are that Russia has suffered 50k KIA in the war which is a lot but in the grand scheme of things won’t show up much in excess deaths.
- f6v 3y ago
  > maybe there's also some other factor inducing excess death in Russians? It’s just that buying a fake vaccination was(still is?) a thing. I don’t know the extent of this, but you could just bribe a doctor to issue a vaccination certificate and throw the vaccine in the thrash. The whole affair was very disappointing.
Mesopropithecus 3y ago
Meaningless statement unless you correct at the very least also for demographics and infection rates.
zvmaz 3y ago
Yes, there is [1]. I remember vividly this one cop that quit his job of so many years over a vaccine mandate. He was invited on TV, and was all proud and righteous of his great deed. He died of COVID. His name was Robert LeMay [2]. I wonder how many deaths could have been avoided were it not for vaccine skepticism. [1] https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2022/3/17/22979105/covid-19-pandemic-democrats-republicans-vaccines-death-rates-pew-research-center https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2022/3/17/22979105/covid... [2] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trooper-covid-ass-governor-lemay-b2003442.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trooper-co...
- revelio 3y ago
  [flagged]
Djeman 3y ago
Completely opposite. Western Europe was highly vaccinated low mortality in map. Eastern Europe low vaccination high mortality
croes 3y ago
Here you can see the excess death rate if Europe https://twitter.com/BjornLomborg/status/1632003510274347010 https://twitter.com/BjornLomborg/status/1632003510274347010 Here the vaccination rate https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-europe-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccina...

Just by looking at the map there might be some correlation with vaccination rate.

by f6v 3y ago

Just by looking at the map there might be some correlation with vaccination rate.

draw_down 3y ago

[dead]

awestroke 3y ago

Yes, it's thoroughly documented that increasing vaccination rates decreases mortality rates

Izkata 3y ago
That would be a negative correlation. The map seems to indicate a positive correlation overall, negative correlation only if you ignore Africa and half of South America. (Eyeballing it side-by-side with the vaccination map here: https://fortune.com/2021/06/30/covid-vaccines-global-vaccination-rates-by-country/ https://fortune.com/2021/06/30/covid-vaccines-global-vaccina... )
- roywiggins 3y ago
  Wealthy countries have way more old people, and way more vaccines. COVID is still more dangerous to elderly vaccinated people than to unvaccinated teenagers. You can sometimes even see this effect in one country, if all the old people are vaccinated and none of the young people are, you'll still probably get more COVID deaths per old person. If you just look at mortality by vaccination status you'll see lots more COVID deaths in the vaccinated cohort, but that's because the vaccinated cohort is just old.
  - nwienert 3y ago
    Why do you immediately jump to one conclusion as to explain this?
    - pessimizer 3y ago
      Probably because while it's a simple observation, it's not an intuitive one, so a lot of us had to have it pointed out recently. It's the nature of the math, not anything that has to do with covid or can be sensibly argued with.
      - nwienert 3y ago
        Sure it’s something to take into your model, but I find the just so framing weirdly pressing in these types of threads.
  - revelio 3y ago
    [flagged]
- croes 3y ago
  And if you ignore east Europe and north europe. East has low vaccination rates and high excess mortality, north has high vaccination rate and low excess deaths. Africa and South America could be different effects. I don't know how thoroughly they do, can or want to track excess deaths.

isoprophlex 3y ago

Big red splotch over Russia, and data includes 2022-2023... maybe there's also some other factor inducing excess death in Russians?

ls612 3y ago
The upper estimates are that Russia has suffered 50k KIA in the war which is a lot but in the grand scheme of things won’t show up much in excess deaths.
f6v 3y ago
> maybe there's also some other factor inducing excess death in Russians? It’s just that buying a fake vaccination was(still is?) a thing. I don’t know the extent of this, but you could just bribe a doctor to issue a vaccination certificate and throw the vaccine in the thrash. The whole affair was very disappointing.

Mesopropithecus 3y ago

Meaningless statement unless you correct at the very least also for demographics and infection rates.

zvmaz 3y ago

Yes, there is [1]. I remember vividly this one cop that quit his job of so many years over a vaccine mandate. He was invited on TV, and was all proud and righteous of his great deed. He died of COVID. His name was Robert LeMay [2]. I wonder how many deaths could have been avoided were it not for vaccine skepticism. [1] https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2022/3/17/22979105/covid-19-pandemic-democrats-republicans-vaccines-death-rates-pew-research-center https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2022/3/17/22979105/covid... [2] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trooper-covid-ass-governor-lemay-b2003442.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trooper-co...

revelio 3y ago
[flagged]

Djeman 3y ago

Completely opposite. Western Europe was highly vaccinated low mortality in map. Eastern Europe low vaccination high mortality

croes 3y ago

Here you can see the excess death rate if Europe https://twitter.com/BjornLomborg/status/1632003510274347010 https://twitter.com/BjornLomborg/status/1632003510274347010 Here the vaccination rate https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-europe-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccina...