4 ms·

Are schematics available? (A quick search didn't turn any up for me.) I don't think I'd call a product totally open without them.

jensnockert 15y ago
Schematics for the chips are not available, but you can boot them without any non-free software or firmware. Which is why RMS prefers the platform coupled with gNewSense.
dchest 15y ago
The parent poster meant that they can run only free software, including BIOS and firmware. Stallman: "Because copying hardware is so hard, the question of whether we're allowed to do it is not vitally important. I see no social imperative for free hardware designs like the imperative for free software. Freedom to copy software is an important right because it is easy now--any computer user can do it. Freedom to copy hardware is not as important, because copying hardware is hard to do. Present-day chip and board fabrication technology resembles the printing press. Copying hardware is as difficult as copying books was in the age of the printing press, or more so. So the ethical issue of copying hardware is more like the ethical issue of copying books 50 years ago, than like the issue of copying software today." http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=1999-06-22-005-05-NW-LF http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=1999-06-22-00...
- joe_bleau 15y ago
  If totally open only means the software, aren't some x86 boxes there already, assuming you can replace the BIOS with coreboot? My point on schematics is this: I don't want schematics for consumer products so that I can copy the hardware; I want schematics so I can troubleshoot and learn. Maybe that's just me (I'm one of those weirdos that collects and reads the service manuals for classic Tektronix and HP test gear).
  - dchest 15y ago
    If totally open only means the software, aren't some x86 boxes there already, assuming you can replace the BIOS with coreboot? If you can replace BIOS and firmware with free software, than you got a computer that runs only free software. "Totally open" is a vague term with no boundaries on its interpretation. I just specified what the post meant, not provided a definition for "open". Maybe that's just me Not just you. It would be awesome.
bri3d 15y ago
Interesting - I thought they were, but I can't find them either. Maybe it's only open-specification; I agree that the hardware isn't totally open without them. There were also some issues with non-free Embedded Controller (the microcontroller that manages switches, power, clocks, and charging) firmware.

jensnockert 15y ago

Schematics for the chips are not available, but you can boot them without any non-free software or firmware. Which is why RMS prefers the platform coupled with gNewSense.

dchest 15y ago

The parent poster meant that they can run only free software, including BIOS and firmware. Stallman: "Because copying hardware is so hard, the question of whether we're allowed to do it is not vitally important. I see no social imperative for free hardware designs like the imperative for free software. Freedom to copy software is an important right because it is easy now--any computer user can do it. Freedom to copy hardware is not as important, because copying hardware is hard to do. Present-day chip and board fabrication technology resembles the printing press. Copying hardware is as difficult as copying books was in the age of the printing press, or more so. So the ethical issue of copying hardware is more like the ethical issue of copying books 50 years ago, than like the issue of copying software today." http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=1999-06-22-005-05-NW-LF http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=1999-06-22-00...

joe_bleau 15y ago
If totally open only means the software, aren't some x86 boxes there already, assuming you can replace the BIOS with coreboot? My point on schematics is this: I don't want schematics for consumer products so that I can copy the hardware; I want schematics so I can troubleshoot and learn. Maybe that's just me (I'm one of those weirdos that collects and reads the service manuals for classic Tektronix and HP test gear).
- dchest 15y ago
  If totally open only means the software, aren't some x86 boxes there already, assuming you can replace the BIOS with coreboot? If you can replace BIOS and firmware with free software, than you got a computer that runs only free software. "Totally open" is a vague term with no boundaries on its interpretation. I just specified what the post meant, not provided a definition for "open". Maybe that's just me Not just you. It would be awesome.

bri3d 15y ago

Interesting - I thought they were, but I can't find them either. Maybe it's only open-specification; I agree that the hardware isn't totally open without them. There were also some issues with non-free Embedded Controller (the microcontroller that manages switches, power, clocks, and charging) firmware.