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Nuclear is dirt cheap when you have your power plants already built. Most of the cost of nuclear is building cost and related capital cost for the loans you tak

by c00lio 3y ago

Nuclear is dirt cheap when you have your power plants already built. Most of the cost of nuclear is building cost and related capital cost for the loans you take to build one and teardown/disposal. All German reactors had already paid off, teardown and disposal are deposited up front. So just running cost for them, mostly people and fuel, which is in the 5ct/kWh range (for sources e.g. look at the last IPCC report, but good numbers are hard to come by for the usual trade secret reasons). Wind is also in the 5ct/kWh range, solar at 10ct/kWh. However, to get both to a load factor of over 90% (which is typical for nuclear power plants) you would need a sufficient amount of storage and overbuild your capacity, which will cost an additional >10ct/kWh.

hef19898 3y ago
On the energy markets in Europe, at least the one Germany is connected to, the prices per kWh are calculated basedbon generation costs. Meaning investments and fox costs are not considered. CO2 certificates are so. With those being way too cheap the three cheapest electricity sources are: Wind, PV and coal. If memory serves well you have then hydro and nuclear, with has gas power plants usually being priced out more often than not. That structure doesn't really make sense from a climate perspective. It does show so, that nuclear is far, far from being cheap.
- c00lio 3y ago
  > On the energy markets in Europe, at least the one Germany is connected to, the prices per kWh are calculated basedbon generation costs. Meaning investments and fox costs are not considered. Nope. Definitely not. Prices are based on a) fixed-price contracts that are negotiated with energy-producers and b) an spot-price auctioning model that is based on supply/demand. As an energy reseller, what you cannot get with your long-term contracts you have to make up with spot priced. With some additional provisions: Renewables get fixed prices (determined by bid) by lay by their regional reseller. And the highest spot price is always paid out to all lower-priced energy producers. But in all that, no energy producer will leave out the building and financing cost from their price calculation. Otherwise e.g. renewables would be free, because their generation cost is practically zero, no people or fuel to pay for, just building and financing.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Fixed prices =|= fixed costs. And yes, spot prices actually do exclude those. Sure, companies do include those in their internal calculations. The energy markets don't care. And yes, the results of this are funny. E.g. closing down gas plants without a single opertional hour because they are just not able to operate economically.

by c00lio 3y ago

hef19898 3y ago

On the energy markets in Europe, at least the one Germany is connected to, the prices per kWh are calculated basedbon generation costs. Meaning investments and fox costs are not considered. CO2 certificates are so. With those being way too cheap the three cheapest electricity sources are: Wind, PV and coal. If memory serves well you have then hydro and nuclear, with has gas power plants usually being priced out more often than not. That structure doesn't really make sense from a climate perspective. It does show so, that nuclear is far, far from being cheap.

c00lio 3y ago
> On the energy markets in Europe, at least the one Germany is connected to, the prices per kWh are calculated basedbon generation costs. Meaning investments and fox costs are not considered. Nope. Definitely not. Prices are based on a) fixed-price contracts that are negotiated with energy-producers and b) an spot-price auctioning model that is based on supply/demand. As an energy reseller, what you cannot get with your long-term contracts you have to make up with spot priced. With some additional provisions: Renewables get fixed prices (determined by bid) by lay by their regional reseller. And the highest spot price is always paid out to all lower-priced energy producers. But in all that, no energy producer will leave out the building and financing cost from their price calculation. Otherwise e.g. renewables would be free, because their generation cost is practically zero, no people or fuel to pay for, just building and financing.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Fixed prices =|= fixed costs. And yes, spot prices actually do exclude those. Sure, companies do include those in their internal calculations. The energy markets don't care. And yes, the results of this are funny. E.g. closing down gas plants without a single opertional hour because they are just not able to operate economically.