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I've been following this from legal circles Original court documents: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63107798/mata-v-avianca-inc/ https://www.courtlisten

by isp 3y ago

I've been following this from legal circles Original court documents: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63107798/mata-v-avianca-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63107798/mata-v-avianca... The lawyer didn't only cite "bogus" cases, but when challenged attached entire "bogus" case contents hallucinated by ChatGPT (attachments to #29 on link above) In the second #32 affidavit, there are screenshots of ChatGPT itself! https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368.32.1_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.57... A legendary example for the legal risks of hallucination in LLMs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination_(artificial_intelligence) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination_(artificial_inte...

_-____-_ 3y ago
That the screenshots are from the mobile website for some reason makes this look even worse.
- spondylosaurus 3y ago
  It does. It's like this lawyer is charging you his hourly rate just to prompt ChatGPT while he's on the toilet.
asmithmd1 3y ago
Thanks for the great context. The lawyer should be disbarred. He doubled down when he was caught, and then blamed chatGPT. What do you bet he was trying to settle really quickly to make this all go away. Here is the direct link to the chatGPT hallucination the lawyer filed in response to the judge's order to produce the actual text of the case: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63107798/29/1/mata-v-avianca-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63107798/29/1/mata-v-av...
- BaseballPhysics 3y ago
  Did he "double down" or did he genuinely not understand that ChatGPT was making stuff up the whole time?
  - mnd999 3y ago
    Doesn’t matter. He is responsible for what he files.
    - woodruffw 3y ago
      It matters in terms of remediation: incompetence implies that lawyers require better technical education on LLMs, while malice implies that the lawyer has violated an already established rule or law. Lawyers undergo continuing legal education throughout their careers; in many (most?) jurisdictions, it’s mandatory. “LLMs are not legal search engines” as a CLE topic in the next decade would not surprise me remotely.
      - b112 3y ago
        Understand, some lawyers finished last in class. Cramming for a bar exam != intelligence. Don't let one dumbass, be a example of how all lawyers are.
        woodruffw 3y ago
        I don’t think I implied that all lawyers are like this?
        b112 3y ago
        Intended or not, the plural here, when discussing a single lawyer, left me with that impression: "incompetence implies that lawyers require better technical education on LLMs" Others may have a different take?
        woodruffw 3y ago
        That should be read as "the presence of incompetence implies that those incompetent lawyers [...]." Sorry if you found the phrasing ambiguous. (The only really important part of the original comment is the part about CLEs: we have an entire professional educational system that ought to be able to accommodate subjects like this.)
- isp 3y ago
  The above link wasn't the only hallucination(!) The lawyer kept digging the hole deeper and deeper, and (as a non-expert) I agree that it seems that the lawyer is at serious risk of being disbarred. Interesting documents are from #24 onwards: - #24 (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368.24.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.57...): "unable to locate most of the case law cited in Plaintiff’s Affirmation in Opposition, and the few cases which the undersigned has been able to locate do not stand for the propositions for which they are cited" - #25 (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368.25.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.57...) & #27 (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368.27.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.57...): order to affix copies of cited cases - #29: attached the cases - later revealed to be a mixture of made up (bogus) for some, vs irrelevant for others - #30 (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368.30.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.57...): "the authenticity of many of these cases is questionable" - polite legal speak for bogus. And "these cases do exist but submits that they address issues entirely unrelated to the principles for which Plaintiff cited them" - irrelevant. And a cutting aside that "(The Ehrlich and In re Air Crash Disaster cases are the only ones submitted in a conventional format.)" - drawing attention to the smoking gun for the bogus cases - #31 (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368.31.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.57...): an unhappy federal judge: "The Court is presented with an unprecedented circumstance. A submission filed by plaintiff’s counsel in opposition to a motion to dismiss is replete with citations to non-existent cases. ... Six of the submitted cases appear to be bogus judicial decisions with bogus quotes and bogus internal citations" ---- this PDF is worth reading in full, it is only 3 pages & excoriating - #32 affidavits, including the ChatGPT screenshot - #33 (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368.33.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.57...): an even more unhappy judge: invitation for the lawyer & law firm to explain why they "ought not be sanctioned"
  - asmithmd1 3y ago
    A dry quote from the defendant in #24 above: "Putting aside that there is no page 598 in Kaiser Steel..."
BSEdlMMldESB 3y ago
[flagged]
bandyaboot 3y ago
I’m quite amused that ChatGPT hallucinated a frivolous lawsuit brought by someone who was denied an exit row seat.
- smsm42 3y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if it were based on a number of real lawsuits of the same exact nature.
Obscurity4340 3y ago
Wouldn't "confabulation" be a better term for this?

by isp 3y ago

_-____-_ 3y ago

That the screenshots are from the mobile website for some reason makes this look even worse.

spondylosaurus 3y ago
It does. It's like this lawyer is charging you his hourly rate just to prompt ChatGPT while he's on the toilet.

asmithmd1 3y ago

Thanks for the great context. The lawyer should be disbarred. He doubled down when he was caught, and then blamed chatGPT. What do you bet he was trying to settle really quickly to make this all go away. Here is the direct link to the chatGPT hallucination the lawyer filed in response to the judge's order to produce the actual text of the case: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63107798/29/1/mata-v-avianca-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63107798/29/1/mata-v-av...

BaseballPhysics 3y ago
Did he "double down" or did he genuinely not understand that ChatGPT was making stuff up the whole time?
- mnd999 3y ago
  Doesn’t matter. He is responsible for what he files.
  - woodruffw 3y ago
    It matters in terms of remediation: incompetence implies that lawyers require better technical education on LLMs, while malice implies that the lawyer has violated an already established rule or law. Lawyers undergo continuing legal education throughout their careers; in many (most?) jurisdictions, it’s mandatory. “LLMs are not legal search engines” as a CLE topic in the next decade would not surprise me remotely.
    - b112 3y ago
      Understand, some lawyers finished last in class. Cramming for a bar exam != intelligence. Don't let one dumbass, be a example of how all lawyers are.
      - woodruffw 3y ago
        I don’t think I implied that all lawyers are like this?
        b112 3y ago
        Intended or not, the plural here, when discussing a single lawyer, left me with that impression: "incompetence implies that lawyers require better technical education on LLMs" Others may have a different take?
        woodruffw 3y ago
        That should be read as "the presence of incompetence implies that those incompetent lawyers [...]." Sorry if you found the phrasing ambiguous. (The only really important part of the original comment is the part about CLEs: we have an entire professional educational system that ought to be able to accommodate subjects like this.)
isp 3y ago
The above link wasn't the only hallucination(!) The lawyer kept digging the hole deeper and deeper, and (as a non-expert) I agree that it seems that the lawyer is at serious risk of being disbarred. Interesting documents are from #24 onwards: - #24 (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368.24.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.57...): "unable to locate most of the case law cited in Plaintiff’s Affirmation in Opposition, and the few cases which the undersigned has been able to locate do not stand for the propositions for which they are cited" - #25 (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368.25.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.57...) & #27 (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368.27.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.57...): order to affix copies of cited cases - #29: attached the cases - later revealed to be a mixture of made up (bogus) for some, vs irrelevant for others - #30 (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368.30.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.57...): "the authenticity of many of these cases is questionable" - polite legal speak for bogus. And "these cases do exist but submits that they address issues entirely unrelated to the principles for which Plaintiff cited them" - irrelevant. And a cutting aside that "(The Ehrlich and In re Air Crash Disaster cases are the only ones submitted in a conventional format.)" - drawing attention to the smoking gun for the bogus cases - #31 (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368.31.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.57...): an unhappy federal judge: "The Court is presented with an unprecedented circumstance. A submission filed by plaintiff’s counsel in opposition to a motion to dismiss is replete with citations to non-existent cases. ... Six of the submitted cases appear to be bogus judicial decisions with bogus quotes and bogus internal citations" ---- this PDF is worth reading in full, it is only 3 pages & excoriating - #32 affidavits, including the ChatGPT screenshot - #33 (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368/gov.uscourts.nysd.575368.33.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.57...): an even more unhappy judge: invitation for the lawyer & law firm to explain why they "ought not be sanctioned"
- asmithmd1 3y ago
  A dry quote from the defendant in #24 above: "Putting aside that there is no page 598 in Kaiser Steel..."

BSEdlMMldESB 3y ago

[flagged]

bandyaboot 3y ago

I’m quite amused that ChatGPT hallucinated a frivolous lawsuit brought by someone who was denied an exit row seat.

smsm42 3y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if it were based on a number of real lawsuits of the same exact nature.

Obscurity4340 3y ago

Wouldn't "confabulation" be a better term for this?