4 ms·

Apple may use Carbon Fiber in Next Macbook

16 points by tontoa4 18y ago

iigs 18y ago
Carbon fiber has a bunch of desirable properties, but I don't believe that absolute thickness (thinness) is generally considered one of them. As far as I know the most common uses for carbon fiber are when light weight and high strength are needed, such as in aerodynamic panels on race cars -- nobody cares if the panel is .5mm or .5in, so long as the outer surface is the right shape and the weight is as low as possible. If my understanding is correct, these attributes are counter to one of the key goals of the MB Air (the goal of being as thin as practical). It will be interesting to see the exact CF weave and resins they select as a compromise.
- rudyfink 18y ago
  Yes, I'd postulate this would not be an engineering decision as much as it would be related to the "because it's cool" principal of design, which is related to the "because it'll sell" principal of marketing.
  - ntoshev 18y ago
    principle
helveticaman 18y ago
It's frustrating. I can't stay mad at Apple for the sleazier things it does because it makes such beautiful stuff.
- litewulf 18y ago
  This is why people have things called character and stuff. ;) (Not a personal slam. I just wish sometimes people would call out Apple on being sleazy before their "but its so prettyyyyy" rationalization kicks in. Because otherwise Apple will continue making you bend over backwards.)
  - helveticaman 18y ago
    Point taken.
sker 18y ago
I hate to be a troll but, how is this relevant? Feels like digg..
- hugh 18y ago
  I reckon hardware design issues are interesting, especially when they involve fancy new materials.
uuilly 18y ago
I think that carbon fiber is a really good insulator which is not good for a computer. Think carbon fiber mufflers on motorcycles not getting hot. Composite skis don't get cold. I suppose plastic is the same in that respect... But there is something from my days as a machinist / composite-ist telling me that all the heat will stay in and everything will melt. My memories are hazy but it doesn't feel right...
- hugh 18y ago
  This actually sounds pretty good to me. Ideally in a laptop you want to get rid of the heat through the vents, not through the case. Nobody likes burning their thighs and/or wrists, and that's a big problem with the metal macbooks. Now I come to read the article more carefully, in fact, the part they're considering replacing with carbon fiber is the bottom cover, which suggests they really are thinking in terms of heat conduction, even though that's not mentioned in the article.
- DaniFong 18y ago
  The insulation properties of carbon fiber depend on the resin used in construction. Some resins are quite thermally conductive. Also, most of the cooling is dominated by advection; air flow, that is, forced by the fan.
blackguardx 18y ago
Well for maximum effectiveness, there needs to be a substrate on which to lay the carbon fiber. Having just a sheet of carbon fiber mesh and cured resin isn't nearly as strong as that same sheet covering some other material like foam or wood.
- m0digital 18y ago
  For a 3 lb MacBook Air, I seriosuly doubt they'll need to reinforce it with anything. A six layer carbon fiber bottom will be more than adequate.
crabapple 18y ago
wow apple is desperate. they are using unibody aluminum chasis to convince people to pay $2k for laptop internals they could get from dell for $600. case mods must be where its at since the macbook pro is not meaningfully different under the hood than the previous macbooks. carbon fiber?? why not try to see if you can freeze-frame star trek iv at the point where scotty has his forumla for transparent aluminum on the screen. that should catch a cool $5k per unit at least.
- laut 18y ago
  More flush with cash and profitable than desperate I'd say.
- aaronblohowiak 18y ago
  crystalline aluminum is ruby, which macs now have much better support for =D
tjmc 18y ago
Acer have been using carbon fiber on the cover/screen backing of their Ferrari series laptops for over 4 years. I've had one for a bit over 3 years and it's still in great shape, despite quite a few knocks in transit. Carbon fiber's a good material to put behind the screen - light and very strong.
briansmith 18y ago
Using carbon fiber in laptops is nothing new. IBM, Lenovo, Sony, and Panasonic have been using Carbon Fiber for years. My Lenovo T60 (over two years old) has a carbon fiber "roll cage" that you can see when when you open it up, and it wasn't even the first carbon-fiber-based ThinkPad.
bep 18y ago
Why wait? I think The Voodoo Envy is good enough http://www.voodoopc.com/#/productsenvy http://www.voodoopc.com/#/productsenvy

16 points by tontoa4 18y ago

iigs 18y ago

Carbon fiber has a bunch of desirable properties, but I don't believe that absolute thickness (thinness) is generally considered one of them. As far as I know the most common uses for carbon fiber are when light weight and high strength are needed, such as in aerodynamic panels on race cars -- nobody cares if the panel is .5mm or .5in, so long as the outer surface is the right shape and the weight is as low as possible. If my understanding is correct, these attributes are counter to one of the key goals of the MB Air (the goal of being as thin as practical). It will be interesting to see the exact CF weave and resins they select as a compromise.

rudyfink 18y ago
Yes, I'd postulate this would not be an engineering decision as much as it would be related to the "because it's cool" principal of design, which is related to the "because it'll sell" principal of marketing.
- ntoshev 18y ago
  principle

helveticaman 18y ago

It's frustrating. I can't stay mad at Apple for the sleazier things it does because it makes such beautiful stuff.

litewulf 18y ago
This is why people have things called character and stuff. ;) (Not a personal slam. I just wish sometimes people would call out Apple on being sleazy before their "but its so prettyyyyy" rationalization kicks in. Because otherwise Apple will continue making you bend over backwards.)
- helveticaman 18y ago
  Point taken.

sker 18y ago

I hate to be a troll but, how is this relevant? Feels like digg..

hugh 18y ago
I reckon hardware design issues are interesting, especially when they involve fancy new materials.

uuilly 18y ago

I think that carbon fiber is a really good insulator which is not good for a computer. Think carbon fiber mufflers on motorcycles not getting hot. Composite skis don't get cold. I suppose plastic is the same in that respect... But there is something from my days as a machinist / composite-ist telling me that all the heat will stay in and everything will melt. My memories are hazy but it doesn't feel right...

hugh 18y ago
This actually sounds pretty good to me. Ideally in a laptop you want to get rid of the heat through the vents, not through the case. Nobody likes burning their thighs and/or wrists, and that's a big problem with the metal macbooks. Now I come to read the article more carefully, in fact, the part they're considering replacing with carbon fiber is the bottom cover, which suggests they really are thinking in terms of heat conduction, even though that's not mentioned in the article.
DaniFong 18y ago
The insulation properties of carbon fiber depend on the resin used in construction. Some resins are quite thermally conductive. Also, most of the cooling is dominated by advection; air flow, that is, forced by the fan.

blackguardx 18y ago

Well for maximum effectiveness, there needs to be a substrate on which to lay the carbon fiber. Having just a sheet of carbon fiber mesh and cured resin isn't nearly as strong as that same sheet covering some other material like foam or wood.

m0digital 18y ago
For a 3 lb MacBook Air, I seriosuly doubt they'll need to reinforce it with anything. A six layer carbon fiber bottom will be more than adequate.

crabapple 18y ago

wow apple is desperate. they are using unibody aluminum chasis to convince people to pay $2k for laptop internals they could get from dell for $600. case mods must be where its at since the macbook pro is not meaningfully different under the hood than the previous macbooks. carbon fiber?? why not try to see if you can freeze-frame star trek iv at the point where scotty has his forumla for transparent aluminum on the screen. that should catch a cool $5k per unit at least.

laut 18y ago
More flush with cash and profitable than desperate I'd say.
aaronblohowiak 18y ago
crystalline aluminum is ruby, which macs now have much better support for =D

tjmc 18y ago

Acer have been using carbon fiber on the cover/screen backing of their Ferrari series laptops for over 4 years. I've had one for a bit over 3 years and it's still in great shape, despite quite a few knocks in transit. Carbon fiber's a good material to put behind the screen - light and very strong.

briansmith 18y ago

Using carbon fiber in laptops is nothing new. IBM, Lenovo, Sony, and Panasonic have been using Carbon Fiber for years. My Lenovo T60 (over two years old) has a carbon fiber "roll cage" that you can see when when you open it up, and it wasn't even the first carbon-fiber-based ThinkPad.

bep 18y ago

Why wait? I think The Voodoo Envy is good enough http://www.voodoopc.com/#/productsenvy http://www.voodoopc.com/#/productsenvy