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Here's video of a typical smaller cloud seeding aircraft. https://youtu.be/nwonVY_cNS4 https://youtu.be/nwonVY_cNS4 CNN isn't helping anyone by talking about

Here's video of a typical smaller cloud seeding aircraft. https://youtu.be/nwonVY_cNS4 https://youtu.be/nwonVY_cNS4 CNN isn't helping anyone by talking about 'conspiracy theories' and claiming '.... In Spain’s case, much of the 'trolling' revolves around the rehashing of an old conspiracy theory: so-called “chemtrails.” 'Under many of the agency’s Twitter posts, especially those that refer to more extreme weather, users have posted images of blue skies, crisscrossed with wispy, white trails. They falsely claim the trails contain a cocktail of chemicals to artificially manipulate the weather – keeping rain away and causing climate change. It’s a theory roundly rejected by scientists'. One of the reasons CNN is a failed, irresponsible media company '(when it launched as a lightweight cable version of the vapid USA Today tabloid and was nicknamed 'chicken noodle news') is this type of dismissive, sloppy article that dismisses people's concerns. Anytime I see the phrase 'conpiracy theory' I usually just skim and move on.

nl 3y ago
Rain seeding is a thing of course. But that's different to contrails which are what conspiracy theorists point to as their "chemtrails"! It should be noted that rain seeding is realistically rarely used.
- olivermarks 3y ago
  Another 2020 CNN article: 'China to expand weather modification program to cover area larger than India' https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/03/asia/china-weather-modification-cloud-seeding-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/03/asia/china-weather-modificati... It's not hard to understand why people are anxious about global 'weather modification' and annoyed when they are insulted and dismissed as cranks. This is another of those obscure areas of operations that need a lot more transparency, explanation and openness so we don't freak people out. 5G and chemtrails appear to be two areas that make people extremely anxious, whether legitimately or not.
  - zamadatix 3y ago
    This reply could have been posted regardless of what the parent actually said, since you didn't respond to any of it. The chemtrails theory refers to many long lasting contrails being chemical agents actively and secretly dispersed, at massive scale over decades, for a variety of nefarious purposes. Cloud seeding refers to the currently rare and often publicised activity of coaxing out rain, using a very different set of chemicals. No amount of the latter developing makes the previous story any more true but people love to tie the two together as it makes for a story of validity in the form "see, people were attacking cloud seeding and it was real, what else is actually real!" when that never actually happened at scale.
  - cauch 3y ago
    It is perfectly normal that people are anxious. I am myself anxious. But the problem, and what makes those people that the CNN article talk about despicable, is that those anxious people are attacking innocent scientists just because they choose to convince themselves that these scientists are the devil, based on nothing else than crazy logic and convenient extrapolation. Being anxious is nothing bad, and nobody is being blamed for being anxious. Being a toxic person that does counter-productive things and put innocent scientists in real danger with their bullying is not ok, and these persons merit to be treated fairly: they are adults, they have responsibility, their actions have consequences. Anxiety is one of the cause, but the fact that all anxious people are not bullying innocent scientists is the proof that there are other causes, including the fact that these people choose hatred instead of reason.
  - eesmith 3y ago
    Those cloud seeding programs are expensive and require dedicated hardware. They are not installed on commercial passenger airlines. If they were, that would mean a huge number of aircraft maintenance workers and ground crew know about it, and are keeping it secret from the public - a conspiracy. Where are the chemicals stored at the airport? Are the fire/safety teams also in on the conspiracy? If not on commercial passenger airlines, then which ones? Are there fleets of planes which are not on publicly available flight trackers? Or are a lot of those flights lying about their cargo and mission? If so, that's a conspiracy. Those weather modification programs are not done in clear skies. The video you linked to earlier makes that very explicit. All cloud seeding does it change the timing of where rain falls. It doesn't work without a lot of water already in the air. For rains to not fall, when it would have without active intervention, means the water had to be forced out before reaching Spain - doing it over Spain would be worthless. So pictures of clear-sky "chemtrails" over Spain can't be weather modification keeping rain out of Spain. Where are these flights based? Where do they travel? What conspiracy keeps us from knowing this about Europe, when we know about China's efforts? That's why these are called 'conspiracy theories'. They require a large number of people to conspire to keep something secret, and have at best only weak circumstantial evidence to support it. ("People can modify the weather, so the droughts in Spain must be caused by people modifying the weather" needs a few more underpants gnomes worked out.) Thing is, we know that contrails modify the climate, without a doubt. 9/11's flight shutdown made that analysis possible. "9/11 study: Air traffic affects climate" at https://edition.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/08/07/contrails.climate/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/08/07/contrails.cl... or https://www.nature.com/articles/418601a https://www.nature.com/articles/418601a if you want the publication. It helped reduce the daily range in daytime highs and nighttime lows. Which makes continued flights a form of weather modification right there, just like dumping massive amounts of CO2 in the air is another form of global weather modification. But notice that those are both side-effects of a much more profitable business. Who benefits in keeping the rain out of Spain, and how do they keep those activities hidden so well? Oh, right - a global conspiracy. What is the right solution if people are extremely anxious for strongly illegitimate reasons?
- colpabar 3y ago
  Guess what? You claiming that cloud seeding is real makes you a conspiracy theorist to others. It’s a completely meaningless term at this point.
  - krapp 3y ago
    No one believes cloud seeding is a conspiracy, except maybe the people who believe in chemtrails, to whom the commonly understood definition of 'conspiracy theorist' clearly applies. Your comment isn't the slam dunk you think it is.
    - colpabar 3y ago
      I’m not looking to slam dunk anyone, I would just like everyone to realize that the only difference between a conspiracy theory and a fact is time.
      - krapp 3y ago
        >I would just like everyone to realize that the only difference between a conspiracy theory and a fact is time. That implies all conspiracy theories are true, and will eventually be proven so, which is obviously incorrect. Most conspiracy theories will never be proven true because they have no factual basis, and most of the rest will only coincidentally appear to be true because despite what they will tell you conspiracy theorists tend not to actually have hidden insight into the secret workings of the world, they just happen sometimes to be right the way a stopped clock is sometimes right. I would like you to realize the difference between a conspiracy theory and a fact (an actual conspiracy) is the existence of the specific conspiracy being theorized about, and the last people to trust regarding the likely truth of such theories are the conspiracy theorists themselves. No matter how much time passes, chemtrails are not going to become fact. Neither will Jewish space lasers. There is no vast, dark cabal of elites controlling the weather, and meteorologists are not their propagandists.
brucethemoose2 3y ago
I wouldn't go that far, but their wording in the article rather of poor and dismissive.
x3874 3y ago
> Anytime I see the phrase 'conpiracy theory' I usually just skim and move on. Same here.There is basically no honesty left in most media. You'll have read multiple sides on specialized topics. Not worth the time needed anyway.
ivan_gammel 3y ago
There’s a difference between an educated concern based on some evidence and conspiracy theory. Chemtrails are a conspiracy theory by the definition of what conspiracy theory is. Why does it trigger you so much?
eesmith 3y ago
> that dismisses people's concerns. What are those concerns? That most airlines spray chemicals that keep rain from falling on Spain? There's no reason to believe that's true. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory . Or concerns that governments aren't doing enough to prevent increased global warming? Or concerns that there's a conspiracy to promote the false story about global warming? Or concerns that the government hasn't prepared for events like this, and has no effective response in place? And how do those concerns justify threatening meterologists?
- olivermarks 3y ago
  Sadly Wikipedia has now lost all credibility, and is not a credible resource for anything even vaguely controversial. Many people think 'global warming' (or 'climate change' as it now called) is 80% snake oil and that there are many alarmist evangelizing grifters making a fortune and changing the global balance of power in its name. This is another failed example of 'trust me I'm a scientist' that has lost a large segment of our population. Honesty and transparency would solve most of this, not just insulting people and accusing them of believing in heretic theories that have been cooked up by a secret cabal of 'non existent' conspirators. Yuo don't win hearts and minds that way.
  - kramerger 3y ago
    Let me see.. You discredit the media. You discredit Wikipedia. You discredit the scientists. Then you make up some numbers to support your claim that people are being fooled by a powerful group working in the shadows. I'm sorry, isn't this starting to sound like a conspiracy theory??
    - olivermarks 3y ago
      My comments are about the sad state of credible information sources, not the actual topic being discussed. No need to apologize, it's easy to go down the paranoia rabbit hole and label anyone who questions your rigid beliefs.

nl 3y ago

Rain seeding is a thing of course. But that's different to contrails which are what conspiracy theorists point to as their "chemtrails"! It should be noted that rain seeding is realistically rarely used.

olivermarks 3y ago
Another 2020 CNN article: 'China to expand weather modification program to cover area larger than India' https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/03/asia/china-weather-modification-cloud-seeding-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/03/asia/china-weather-modificati... It's not hard to understand why people are anxious about global 'weather modification' and annoyed when they are insulted and dismissed as cranks. This is another of those obscure areas of operations that need a lot more transparency, explanation and openness so we don't freak people out. 5G and chemtrails appear to be two areas that make people extremely anxious, whether legitimately or not.
- zamadatix 3y ago
  This reply could have been posted regardless of what the parent actually said, since you didn't respond to any of it. The chemtrails theory refers to many long lasting contrails being chemical agents actively and secretly dispersed, at massive scale over decades, for a variety of nefarious purposes. Cloud seeding refers to the currently rare and often publicised activity of coaxing out rain, using a very different set of chemicals. No amount of the latter developing makes the previous story any more true but people love to tie the two together as it makes for a story of validity in the form "see, people were attacking cloud seeding and it was real, what else is actually real!" when that never actually happened at scale.
- cauch 3y ago
  It is perfectly normal that people are anxious. I am myself anxious. But the problem, and what makes those people that the CNN article talk about despicable, is that those anxious people are attacking innocent scientists just because they choose to convince themselves that these scientists are the devil, based on nothing else than crazy logic and convenient extrapolation. Being anxious is nothing bad, and nobody is being blamed for being anxious. Being a toxic person that does counter-productive things and put innocent scientists in real danger with their bullying is not ok, and these persons merit to be treated fairly: they are adults, they have responsibility, their actions have consequences. Anxiety is one of the cause, but the fact that all anxious people are not bullying innocent scientists is the proof that there are other causes, including the fact that these people choose hatred instead of reason.
- eesmith 3y ago
  Those cloud seeding programs are expensive and require dedicated hardware. They are not installed on commercial passenger airlines. If they were, that would mean a huge number of aircraft maintenance workers and ground crew know about it, and are keeping it secret from the public - a conspiracy. Where are the chemicals stored at the airport? Are the fire/safety teams also in on the conspiracy? If not on commercial passenger airlines, then which ones? Are there fleets of planes which are not on publicly available flight trackers? Or are a lot of those flights lying about their cargo and mission? If so, that's a conspiracy. Those weather modification programs are not done in clear skies. The video you linked to earlier makes that very explicit. All cloud seeding does it change the timing of where rain falls. It doesn't work without a lot of water already in the air. For rains to not fall, when it would have without active intervention, means the water had to be forced out before reaching Spain - doing it over Spain would be worthless. So pictures of clear-sky "chemtrails" over Spain can't be weather modification keeping rain out of Spain. Where are these flights based? Where do they travel? What conspiracy keeps us from knowing this about Europe, when we know about China's efforts? That's why these are called 'conspiracy theories'. They require a large number of people to conspire to keep something secret, and have at best only weak circumstantial evidence to support it. ("People can modify the weather, so the droughts in Spain must be caused by people modifying the weather" needs a few more underpants gnomes worked out.) Thing is, we know that contrails modify the climate, without a doubt. 9/11's flight shutdown made that analysis possible. "9/11 study: Air traffic affects climate" at https://edition.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/08/07/contrails.climate/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/08/07/contrails.cl... or https://www.nature.com/articles/418601a https://www.nature.com/articles/418601a if you want the publication. It helped reduce the daily range in daytime highs and nighttime lows. Which makes continued flights a form of weather modification right there, just like dumping massive amounts of CO2 in the air is another form of global weather modification. But notice that those are both side-effects of a much more profitable business. Who benefits in keeping the rain out of Spain, and how do they keep those activities hidden so well? Oh, right - a global conspiracy. What is the right solution if people are extremely anxious for strongly illegitimate reasons?
colpabar 3y ago
Guess what? You claiming that cloud seeding is real makes you a conspiracy theorist to others. It’s a completely meaningless term at this point.
- krapp 3y ago
  No one believes cloud seeding is a conspiracy, except maybe the people who believe in chemtrails, to whom the commonly understood definition of 'conspiracy theorist' clearly applies. Your comment isn't the slam dunk you think it is.
  - colpabar 3y ago
    I’m not looking to slam dunk anyone, I would just like everyone to realize that the only difference between a conspiracy theory and a fact is time.
    - krapp 3y ago
      >I would just like everyone to realize that the only difference between a conspiracy theory and a fact is time. That implies all conspiracy theories are true, and will eventually be proven so, which is obviously incorrect. Most conspiracy theories will never be proven true because they have no factual basis, and most of the rest will only coincidentally appear to be true because despite what they will tell you conspiracy theorists tend not to actually have hidden insight into the secret workings of the world, they just happen sometimes to be right the way a stopped clock is sometimes right. I would like you to realize the difference between a conspiracy theory and a fact (an actual conspiracy) is the existence of the specific conspiracy being theorized about, and the last people to trust regarding the likely truth of such theories are the conspiracy theorists themselves. No matter how much time passes, chemtrails are not going to become fact. Neither will Jewish space lasers. There is no vast, dark cabal of elites controlling the weather, and meteorologists are not their propagandists.

brucethemoose2 3y ago

I wouldn't go that far, but their wording in the article rather of poor and dismissive.

x3874 3y ago

> Anytime I see the phrase 'conpiracy theory' I usually just skim and move on. Same here.There is basically no honesty left in most media. You'll have read multiple sides on specialized topics. Not worth the time needed anyway.

ivan_gammel 3y ago

There’s a difference between an educated concern based on some evidence and conspiracy theory. Chemtrails are a conspiracy theory by the definition of what conspiracy theory is. Why does it trigger you so much?

eesmith 3y ago

> that dismisses people's concerns. What are those concerns? That most airlines spray chemicals that keep rain from falling on Spain? There's no reason to believe that's true. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory . Or concerns that governments aren't doing enough to prevent increased global warming? Or concerns that there's a conspiracy to promote the false story about global warming? Or concerns that the government hasn't prepared for events like this, and has no effective response in place? And how do those concerns justify threatening meterologists?

olivermarks 3y ago
Sadly Wikipedia has now lost all credibility, and is not a credible resource for anything even vaguely controversial. Many people think 'global warming' (or 'climate change' as it now called) is 80% snake oil and that there are many alarmist evangelizing grifters making a fortune and changing the global balance of power in its name. This is another failed example of 'trust me I'm a scientist' that has lost a large segment of our population. Honesty and transparency would solve most of this, not just insulting people and accusing them of believing in heretic theories that have been cooked up by a secret cabal of 'non existent' conspirators. Yuo don't win hearts and minds that way.
- kramerger 3y ago
  Let me see.. You discredit the media. You discredit Wikipedia. You discredit the scientists. Then you make up some numbers to support your claim that people are being fooled by a powerful group working in the shadows. I'm sorry, isn't this starting to sound like a conspiracy theory??
  - olivermarks 3y ago
    My comments are about the sad state of credible information sources, not the actual topic being discussed. No need to apologize, it's easy to go down the paranoia rabbit hole and label anyone who questions your rigid beliefs.