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Interesting point on evaluating a company based on individuals' code of ethics compared to their upwards career mobility. But the obvious (albeit a bit contrive

Interesting point on evaluating a company based on individuals' code of ethics compared to their upwards career mobility. But the obvious (albeit a bit contrived) question would then be; What if the so-called unethical individuals measurably contributes more revenue and profit, than the ethical individuals? Is a CEO who allows lesser contributing individuals rise to the top of the management hierarchy, acting ethically towards the shareholders?

einhverfr 15y ago
Either the unethical individual will be seen as a liability down the road and thus not promoted, or the unethical individual will rise and gain additional power, and create problems later on.
einhverfr 15y ago
Basically every system rewards some behaviors and punishes others. If your system rewards bringing in money and to hell with ethics, then the shit will float, and eventually the folks at the top will be unethical psychopaths who will tear your company apart. If you have people who genuinely want to bring money in, work hard at this, and so forth, and they are ethical, and you reward them for both of these, then your business is protected and will not lose sight of the necessity to change the world for the better, which is, likely the heart of the business if it is any good. It's easy to sell products that benefit people, and things that make the world a better place do that.
- playeren 15y ago
  >It's easy to sell products that benefit people, and things that make the world a better place do that. I know this is kind of a YC mantra, but I can't help but suspect it of being a matter of faith, more than a matter of fact. Is Groupon (val. ~12bn) really helping the world 24x more than, say, Atlassian (val. ~500mm)? If you're up for it - time for an even more contrived scenario. You are heading a successful start-up. You've proven your concept and it's time for your Series A. You sit down with your angel who has some introductions lined up for you. S.P.E.C.T.R.E. VC Inc. has a proven track record helping companies to record breaking public offerings in record time. ALL of their portfolio companies has so far successfully completed a "let-it-rain" IPO. Some also went bankrupt not so long after that. Some people accuse the company of using "dirty tricks" to obtain their goals. They also seem like total assholes when you meet them. H.E.R.O. & Partners VC on the other hand, seem like nice guys you could hang out with in private. They are a successful VC company in their own right, but their investments are a bit more hit-and-miss, and they've only been part in one moderately successful IPO. Both seem professional. Both have the tools to help your company. Who do you choose?
  - einhverfr 15y ago
    First, re Groupon. Certainly they help people. But I didn't say that making the world a better place was necessary. I said that it was one way to make products that benefit people. Groupon benefits people. Whether it makes the world a better place is a different question. As for your scenario, I don't trust VC's. Someone may be being nice at first just to leverage you out of more of a share later. My first impression is that SPECTRE poses a distinct danger of pushing a company too far too fast, and that this is most likely the source of the accusations of dirty tricks. I don't know what you mean about assholes. If they are merely arrogant and irreverent that's one thing. If they seem to encourage unethical behavior I would not consider them. HERO poses a different initial concern. I would be worried about them pushing to dilute my share, and just being nice at first to win confidence. Bringing someone into a business is a lot like getting married. I would want someone I could both respect and get along with, but failing that at least knowing where I stand would be helpful.

einhverfr 15y ago

Either the unethical individual will be seen as a liability down the road and thus not promoted, or the unethical individual will rise and gain additional power, and create problems later on.

einhverfr 15y ago

Basically every system rewards some behaviors and punishes others. If your system rewards bringing in money and to hell with ethics, then the shit will float, and eventually the folks at the top will be unethical psychopaths who will tear your company apart. If you have people who genuinely want to bring money in, work hard at this, and so forth, and they are ethical, and you reward them for both of these, then your business is protected and will not lose sight of the necessity to change the world for the better, which is, likely the heart of the business if it is any good. It's easy to sell products that benefit people, and things that make the world a better place do that.

playeren 15y ago
>It's easy to sell products that benefit people, and things that make the world a better place do that. I know this is kind of a YC mantra, but I can't help but suspect it of being a matter of faith, more than a matter of fact. Is Groupon (val. ~12bn) really helping the world 24x more than, say, Atlassian (val. ~500mm)? If you're up for it - time for an even more contrived scenario. You are heading a successful start-up. You've proven your concept and it's time for your Series A. You sit down with your angel who has some introductions lined up for you. S.P.E.C.T.R.E. VC Inc. has a proven track record helping companies to record breaking public offerings in record time. ALL of their portfolio companies has so far successfully completed a "let-it-rain" IPO. Some also went bankrupt not so long after that. Some people accuse the company of using "dirty tricks" to obtain their goals. They also seem like total assholes when you meet them. H.E.R.O. & Partners VC on the other hand, seem like nice guys you could hang out with in private. They are a successful VC company in their own right, but their investments are a bit more hit-and-miss, and they've only been part in one moderately successful IPO. Both seem professional. Both have the tools to help your company. Who do you choose?
- einhverfr 15y ago
  First, re Groupon. Certainly they help people. But I didn't say that making the world a better place was necessary. I said that it was one way to make products that benefit people. Groupon benefits people. Whether it makes the world a better place is a different question. As for your scenario, I don't trust VC's. Someone may be being nice at first just to leverage you out of more of a share later. My first impression is that SPECTRE poses a distinct danger of pushing a company too far too fast, and that this is most likely the source of the accusations of dirty tricks. I don't know what you mean about assholes. If they are merely arrogant and irreverent that's one thing. If they seem to encourage unethical behavior I would not consider them. HERO poses a different initial concern. I would be worried about them pushing to dilute my share, and just being nice at first to win confidence. Bringing someone into a business is a lot like getting married. I would want someone I could both respect and get along with, but failing that at least knowing where I stand would be helpful.