8 ms·

> full-on fascist regime. This why you can't judge the world by watching TV. It is really sad to see normally intelligent people go batshit crazy and start spe

by J3L2404 15y ago

> full-on fascist regime. This why you can't judge the world by watching TV. It is really sad to see normally intelligent people go batshit crazy and start spewing nonsense. Europeans should know better than to throw around the word fascist. I am so sick of whining Europeans that I would almost support stalling the U.S. economy just to drive the E.U. into a ditch.

jacquesm 15y ago
> It is really sad to see normally intelligent people go batshit crazy and start spewing nonsense. > I am so sick of whining Europeans that I would almost support stalling the U.S. economy just to drive the E.U. into a ditch. Indeed. Pot, meet kettle.
- J3L2404 15y ago
  Sorry Jacques if my comments are offensive, but this whole America is the evil empire meme is just a load of crap. Someone needs to start 'Occupy Reality'.
  - jacquesm 15y ago
    I think if you want to point out the flaw in someones argument you could do better than to go down the exact same road they took. You effectively claim that the US does not need the EU and that you could afford to drive the EU 'into a ditch' out of spite, when in fact the economies are now so interlinked that if the one suffers the other suffers right along with it. The current crisis is a nice example of that. Effectively it is a single giant economy with lots of subtle and not well understood dependencies, wrecking one on purpose will likely wreck the other one as well. Besides that, you are painting all Europeans with the same brush and that is just as stupid as those that like to paint all of the US with one brush. America is not 'the evil empire' (and neither is Europe), but on both sides of the Atlantic there is plenty of stuff going on that does not have the interests of the general public at heart. I don't mind those that expose those things, and I don't mind people trying to avoid making past mistakes again. They're braver than me in many respects. We're moving into uncharted territory with respect to the amount of impact surveillance technology and anti-terrorism measures have on the lives of ordinary citizens. It remains to be seen if the net result of that is beneficial or not (I'm skeptical and I think that it will be a net negative). The United States seems to me to be the party pushing most aggressively to achieve this with the EU following along and sometimes trying to outdo its counterparts. What bugs me is that there is no - or very little - accountability on this front and the extent to which commercial interests and political interests are entwined. It may take a lot of work to undo the damage that we're doing to ourselves and our societies. To polarize that into a US vs Europe debate is silly at best and 'batshit crazy' at worst. Please don't add fuel to that particular fire.
    - J3L2404 15y ago
      Thanks for your thoughtful reply, and of course your right. But these fascist claims go unanswered here too often and I shouldn't have to dispute it point by point. It's ludicrous. >you are painting all Europeans with the same brush and that is just as stupid as those that like to paint all of the US with one brush. Well I did qualify it with 'whining'. Particularly the ones whose sense of entitlement has become so bloated. My 'E.U. in a ditch' was too much, I have no beef with Europe, just calling out bullshit.
      - wavephorm 15y ago
        But these fascist claims go unanswered here too often and I shouldn't have to dispute it point by point. Except you didn't dispute it at all. Instead of making any sort of insightful argument you said it is sad, and I am batshit crazy, spewing nonsense, and that you want to sabotage the European economy. This is really not a good way to make an argument.
        deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
        J3L2404 15y ago
        You conveniently left out the most important part when you quoted me. It's ludicrous. I know you are intelligent, and said as much, because I read some of your other comments. Unless you work for the Chinese government, the fact that you persist with this idea that America is a fascist country makes me think that something is dreadfully wrong somewhere. It was morning here and I was drinking coffee, maybe it was late there and you were drinking scotch. I'm sorry if I offended you.
nirvana 15y ago
"This why you can't judge the world by reading pamphlets. It is really sad to see normally intelligent people go batshit crazy and start spewing nonsense. White Rose should know better than to throw around the word "evil." I am so sick of whining White Rose that I would almost support stalling the German economy just to drive the White Rose into a ditch."
- J3L2404 15y ago
  Do you really believe the US is fascist?
  - eli_gottlieb 15y ago
    As it gets more managed, managed democracy grows increasingly indistinguishable from fascism.
    - J3L2404 15y ago
      If America is a fascist country then the word fascism has no meaning.
      - davidw 15y ago
        Well, you do have to admit that Obama and Mussolini both end in vowels!
jbjohns 15y ago
>It is really sad to see normally intelligent people go batshit crazy and start spewing nonsense. And nothing seems to make that happen faster than nationalism/patriotism.
- J3L2404 15y ago
  Except hatred of the US.
  - jbjohns 15y ago
    I'm american myself. Please go read what pg has to say about ID.
    - J3L2404 15y ago
      Do you actually believe America is a fascist country? Also do you have a link to the pg article?
      - jbjohns 15y ago
        >Do you actually believe America is a fascist country? If it were we wouldn't be having this conversation. But likewise, I don't think it's the greatest country on earth either (nor can I think of any way such a concept would be meaningful really). To me, it is simply a first world county; it has its good points and its bad points. There are a lot of scary things happening in the western world right now and many of them are spearheaded by the US. >Also do you have a link to the pg article? Sure. http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html
        J3L2404 15y ago
        Thank you 1) For admitting, if reluctantly, that America is not fascist. 2) The link I did not claim we were the greatest country, whatever that means, but I can't fathom the 'America is the worst thing since AIDS' attitude on HN. In the next breath they complain its hard to get here.

by J3L2404 15y ago

jacquesm 15y ago

> It is really sad to see normally intelligent people go batshit crazy and start spewing nonsense. > I am so sick of whining Europeans that I would almost support stalling the U.S. economy just to drive the E.U. into a ditch. Indeed. Pot, meet kettle.

J3L2404 15y ago
Sorry Jacques if my comments are offensive, but this whole America is the evil empire meme is just a load of crap. Someone needs to start 'Occupy Reality'.
- jacquesm 15y ago
  I think if you want to point out the flaw in someones argument you could do better than to go down the exact same road they took. You effectively claim that the US does not need the EU and that you could afford to drive the EU 'into a ditch' out of spite, when in fact the economies are now so interlinked that if the one suffers the other suffers right along with it. The current crisis is a nice example of that. Effectively it is a single giant economy with lots of subtle and not well understood dependencies, wrecking one on purpose will likely wreck the other one as well. Besides that, you are painting all Europeans with the same brush and that is just as stupid as those that like to paint all of the US with one brush. America is not 'the evil empire' (and neither is Europe), but on both sides of the Atlantic there is plenty of stuff going on that does not have the interests of the general public at heart. I don't mind those that expose those things, and I don't mind people trying to avoid making past mistakes again. They're braver than me in many respects. We're moving into uncharted territory with respect to the amount of impact surveillance technology and anti-terrorism measures have on the lives of ordinary citizens. It remains to be seen if the net result of that is beneficial or not (I'm skeptical and I think that it will be a net negative). The United States seems to me to be the party pushing most aggressively to achieve this with the EU following along and sometimes trying to outdo its counterparts. What bugs me is that there is no - or very little - accountability on this front and the extent to which commercial interests and political interests are entwined. It may take a lot of work to undo the damage that we're doing to ourselves and our societies. To polarize that into a US vs Europe debate is silly at best and 'batshit crazy' at worst. Please don't add fuel to that particular fire.
  - J3L2404 15y ago
    Thanks for your thoughtful reply, and of course your right. But these fascist claims go unanswered here too often and I shouldn't have to dispute it point by point. It's ludicrous. >you are painting all Europeans with the same brush and that is just as stupid as those that like to paint all of the US with one brush. Well I did qualify it with 'whining'. Particularly the ones whose sense of entitlement has become so bloated. My 'E.U. in a ditch' was too much, I have no beef with Europe, just calling out bullshit.
    - wavephorm 15y ago
      But these fascist claims go unanswered here too often and I shouldn't have to dispute it point by point. Except you didn't dispute it at all. Instead of making any sort of insightful argument you said it is sad, and I am batshit crazy, spewing nonsense, and that you want to sabotage the European economy. This is really not a good way to make an argument.
      - deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
      - J3L2404 15y ago
        You conveniently left out the most important part when you quoted me. It's ludicrous. I know you are intelligent, and said as much, because I read some of your other comments. Unless you work for the Chinese government, the fact that you persist with this idea that America is a fascist country makes me think that something is dreadfully wrong somewhere. It was morning here and I was drinking coffee, maybe it was late there and you were drinking scotch. I'm sorry if I offended you.

nirvana 15y ago

"This why you can't judge the world by reading pamphlets. It is really sad to see normally intelligent people go batshit crazy and start spewing nonsense. White Rose should know better than to throw around the word "evil." I am so sick of whining White Rose that I would almost support stalling the German economy just to drive the White Rose into a ditch."

J3L2404 15y ago
Do you really believe the US is fascist?
- eli_gottlieb 15y ago
  As it gets more managed, managed democracy grows increasingly indistinguishable from fascism.
  - J3L2404 15y ago
    If America is a fascist country then the word fascism has no meaning.
    - davidw 15y ago
      Well, you do have to admit that Obama and Mussolini both end in vowels!

jbjohns 15y ago

>It is really sad to see normally intelligent people go batshit crazy and start spewing nonsense. And nothing seems to make that happen faster than nationalism/patriotism.

J3L2404 15y ago
Except hatred of the US.
- jbjohns 15y ago
  I'm american myself. Please go read what pg has to say about ID.
  - J3L2404 15y ago
    Do you actually believe America is a fascist country? Also do you have a link to the pg article?
    - jbjohns 15y ago
      >Do you actually believe America is a fascist country? If it were we wouldn't be having this conversation. But likewise, I don't think it's the greatest country on earth either (nor can I think of any way such a concept would be meaningful really). To me, it is simply a first world county; it has its good points and its bad points. There are a lot of scary things happening in the western world right now and many of them are spearheaded by the US. >Also do you have a link to the pg article? Sure. http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html
      - J3L2404 15y ago
        Thank you 1) For admitting, if reluctantly, that America is not fascist. 2) The link I did not claim we were the greatest country, whatever that means, but I can't fathom the 'America is the worst thing since AIDS' attitude on HN. In the next breath they complain its hard to get here.