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The pest control you’re talking about seems really dangerous. Disrupting an entire species and consequently the food chain + giving zombie fungus a lot of bioma

The pest control you’re talking about seems really dangerous. Disrupting an entire species and consequently the food chain + giving zombie fungus a lot of biomass to feed on and evolve…

elliotwagner 3y ago
sounds like a movie plot haha
viraptor 3y ago
> Disrupting an entire species and consequently the food chain One of the types was introduced in a not very distant past, so it doesn't seem like a bigger disruption than what we've already done.
- teaearlgraycold 3y ago
  You should read up on stoat introduction to New Zealand.
  - tuatoru 3y ago
    Pretty sure viraptor would know about that. Also rabbits and myxamatosis and later rabbit calicivirus in both Australia and NZ, and various other well-intended biological "control" introductions that went pear shaped. Cane toads, for instance. Miscellaneous parasitic wasps.
mach1ne 3y ago
Luckily this zombie fungus is very precise in what species it targets, and a fungus specialized in fruit fly would find it borderline impossible to jump even to other kinds of flies.
- ijustlovemath 3y ago
  Right at this moment, yes, but after infecting a billion fruit flies, evolution would have given it a billion chances to jump species. Seems enormously irresponsible to release a fungus like this.
  - b112 3y ago
    And fruit flies are often used, due to their short life cycle, for genetic experiments. They evolve fast. Case in point, they are now known to metabolize ddt, and I think this was discovered 20 years ago. And any fungus will try to evolve with them... and theoretically the local species have no defense?
  - Jedd 3y ago
    It's surprisingly difficult to get an estimate on the fruit fly population of California, or even just an average 'per unit area' figure. Anyway, this fungus is already endemic in California, and I believe California has a major problem with this pest. I'd be surprised if there weren't at least a billion fruit flies active in California mid-summer. As I said in a sibling comment, let's do some safety validation & deployment testing, but also let's not forget this is already out there.
- mannykannot 3y ago
  There are many species of the Entomophthora genus capable of this brain-controlling mechanism [1], and at least this one (Entomophthora muscae) was already known to infect house flies and dung flies [2]. On the one hand, this suggests the genus is capable of adapting to many hosts. On the other, if some Entomophthora species are already endemic in Australia, then presumably the host-jumping risk is already present. Either way, it seems wise to be cautious. Or maybe E.muscae is already present there? If that is the case, then the question is moot. Furthermore, the fact that it has only recently been seen in fruit flies, despite the latter being extensively studied, suggests it might not be useful in controlling their numbers. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entomophthora https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entomophthora [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Entomophthora_muscae_on_Scathophaga_stercoraria_(lateral_view).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Entomophthora_muscae_on_S...
  - mach1ne 3y ago
    Yes, there are different cordyceps-like fungi for different species. The thing is, the neurochemistry of even fairly related insects is so different that the fungus would need to make too many adaptations simultaneously to be able to jump between species. It could infect a trillion fruit flies and never jump to dung fly. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/parasitic-fungus-evolve-to-control-humans https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/parasitic...
    - mannykannot 3y ago
      As the article you link to is about the question of whether they could jump to humans, I'm not sure it is particularly relevant (there have been many cases of introduced species creating trouble, yet none that I am aware of did so by targeting humans, and if one did, it would presumably be a concern in its natural range as well. The concern here is that if the fungus is introduced somewhere new, it may either attack important endemic insect species immediately, or evolve to do so.) From the sources I looked at, it seems to be a matter of fact that E.muscae infects multiple hosts. Furthermore, does the fact that the genus Entomophthora contains many fungi which collectively infect many species not suggest that they can, and have, jumped species? It seems implausible that, just within this genus, each of its species independently evolved to target one host, and a species that can do this with one host would seem better positioned, compared to any that do not have this capability at all, to evolve into something targeting a different host (the point is that all these different Entomophthora evolved from something, and it is most likely a single common ancestor with the ability.)
- MagicMoonlight 3y ago
  And the precursor to covid was only found in bats… until researchers decided to do some upgrades and develop it for use
Jedd 3y ago
The pest control I'm talking about 'releasing' is literally already in Carolyn's back yard - Carolyn being the post-doc researcher subject of TFA, based in California, USA. So, yeah, it's really dangerous, but probably only for these species of fruit fly. I'm not suggesting we (Australia) would not validate it against other related species, including native fruit flies, and then do a risk / benefit analysis based on those findings. Regular inoculation of trap bait/fruit, regional dispersal schedules, etc may be all that's required to knock pest population numbers down periodically.

The pest control you’re talking about seems really dangerous. Disrupting an entire species and consequently the food chain + giving zombie fungus a lot of biomass to feed on and evolve…

elliotwagner 3y ago

sounds like a movie plot haha

viraptor 3y ago

> Disrupting an entire species and consequently the food chain One of the types was introduced in a not very distant past, so it doesn't seem like a bigger disruption than what we've already done.

teaearlgraycold 3y ago
You should read up on stoat introduction to New Zealand.
- tuatoru 3y ago
  Pretty sure viraptor would know about that. Also rabbits and myxamatosis and later rabbit calicivirus in both Australia and NZ, and various other well-intended biological "control" introductions that went pear shaped. Cane toads, for instance. Miscellaneous parasitic wasps.

mach1ne 3y ago

Luckily this zombie fungus is very precise in what species it targets, and a fungus specialized in fruit fly would find it borderline impossible to jump even to other kinds of flies.

ijustlovemath 3y ago
Right at this moment, yes, but after infecting a billion fruit flies, evolution would have given it a billion chances to jump species. Seems enormously irresponsible to release a fungus like this.
- b112 3y ago
  And fruit flies are often used, due to their short life cycle, for genetic experiments. They evolve fast. Case in point, they are now known to metabolize ddt, and I think this was discovered 20 years ago. And any fungus will try to evolve with them... and theoretically the local species have no defense?
- Jedd 3y ago
  It's surprisingly difficult to get an estimate on the fruit fly population of California, or even just an average 'per unit area' figure. Anyway, this fungus is already endemic in California, and I believe California has a major problem with this pest. I'd be surprised if there weren't at least a billion fruit flies active in California mid-summer. As I said in a sibling comment, let's do some safety validation & deployment testing, but also let's not forget this is already out there.
mannykannot 3y ago
There are many species of the Entomophthora genus capable of this brain-controlling mechanism [1], and at least this one (Entomophthora muscae) was already known to infect house flies and dung flies [2]. On the one hand, this suggests the genus is capable of adapting to many hosts. On the other, if some Entomophthora species are already endemic in Australia, then presumably the host-jumping risk is already present. Either way, it seems wise to be cautious. Or maybe E.muscae is already present there? If that is the case, then the question is moot. Furthermore, the fact that it has only recently been seen in fruit flies, despite the latter being extensively studied, suggests it might not be useful in controlling their numbers. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entomophthora https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entomophthora [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Entomophthora_muscae_on_Scathophaga_stercoraria_(lateral_view).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Entomophthora_muscae_on_S...
- mach1ne 3y ago
  Yes, there are different cordyceps-like fungi for different species. The thing is, the neurochemistry of even fairly related insects is so different that the fungus would need to make too many adaptations simultaneously to be able to jump between species. It could infect a trillion fruit flies and never jump to dung fly. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/parasitic-fungus-evolve-to-control-humans https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/parasitic...
  - mannykannot 3y ago
    As the article you link to is about the question of whether they could jump to humans, I'm not sure it is particularly relevant (there have been many cases of introduced species creating trouble, yet none that I am aware of did so by targeting humans, and if one did, it would presumably be a concern in its natural range as well. The concern here is that if the fungus is introduced somewhere new, it may either attack important endemic insect species immediately, or evolve to do so.) From the sources I looked at, it seems to be a matter of fact that E.muscae infects multiple hosts. Furthermore, does the fact that the genus Entomophthora contains many fungi which collectively infect many species not suggest that they can, and have, jumped species? It seems implausible that, just within this genus, each of its species independently evolved to target one host, and a species that can do this with one host would seem better positioned, compared to any that do not have this capability at all, to evolve into something targeting a different host (the point is that all these different Entomophthora evolved from something, and it is most likely a single common ancestor with the ability.)
MagicMoonlight 3y ago
And the precursor to covid was only found in bats… until researchers decided to do some upgrades and develop it for use

Jedd 3y ago

The pest control I'm talking about 'releasing' is literally already in Carolyn's back yard - Carolyn being the post-doc researcher subject of TFA, based in California, USA. So, yeah, it's really dangerous, but probably only for these species of fruit fly. I'm not suggesting we (Australia) would not validate it against other related species, including native fruit flies, and then do a risk / benefit analysis based on those findings. Regular inoculation of trap bait/fruit, regional dispersal schedules, etc may be all that's required to knock pest population numbers down periodically.