4 ms·

Can someone explain the potential repercussion from this kind of foolishness? Isn't non-accredited legal counseling illegal? Do these things apply also to Europ

Can someone explain the potential repercussion from this kind of foolishness? Isn't non-accredited legal counseling illegal? Do these things apply also to Europe?

hkt 3y ago
Non-accredited legal counsel varies from place to place. In the UK there are "Mackenzie friends" who can't speak but can advise in court. As for filings, paralegals don't tend to need qualifications either, though most solicitors they work under will require it. In short, for the UK at least, no, nobody needs qualifications to do that kind of thing. Though it is clearly a good idea.
- jruohonen 3y ago
  Thanks for the clarification. But regarding this case more specifically: it seems that the judge in question is interpreting this as a deliberate attempt to deceive a court; hence, the question about repercussions.
  - hkt 3y ago
    Good question. In the UK (and probably most common law systems) I guess it'd be treated as any vexatious application would be. As far as the judge is concerned there's no legal ground for distinguishing between a regular bit of code and an LLM. It'll be the human who is prosecuted, if that's what you're wondering.
UncleEntity 3y ago
> Can someone explain the potential repercussion from this kind of foolishness? Lawyer sues openAI for megabucks because they didn’t have a warning about using ChatGPT as a paralegal and they got sanctioned by the court. Thirty years of practicing law and they (plural, two lawyers involved) “accidentally” submitted the output from a multi-billion dollar company’s toy without doing any checks?
- viraptor 3y ago
  It's right there by the input box: > ChatGPT may produce inaccurate information about people, places, or facts. That really should be sufficient as "not fit for legal work without full review".
  - sschueller 3y ago
    But wasn't it openAI bragging that ChatGPT4 can pass the bar exam?
    - viraptor 3y ago
      Passing a test and doing the job are different things. Do you think a 5yo who passed MS certification could do the job? https://www.electronicproducts.com/five-year-old-becomes-the-youngest-person-to-pass-a-microsoft-certified-professional-exam/ https://www.electronicproducts.com/five-year-old-becomes-the...
      - sschueller 3y ago
        Obviously not, but there are a lot of people who don't get that. Look how many people thought Tesla had full self driving when it says in the user agreement that they don't.
        sebzim4500 3y ago
        This isn't hidden in a user agreement, it's on the front page.
        sschueller 3y ago
        Yes on the front page /s " Full Self-Driving Capability Build upon Enhanced Autopilot and order Full Self-Driving Capability on your Tesla. This doubles the number of active cameras from four to eight, enabling full self-driving in almost all circumstances, at what we believe will be a probability of safety at least twice as good as the average human driver. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle. All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you. Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available, as this is highly dependent on local regulatory approval. Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year. " https://web.archive.org/web/20171116234123/https://www.tesla.com/autopilot https://web.archive.org/web/20171116234123/https://www.tesla...
yarg 3y ago
Depends on the judge and his mood - given that it was filed in opposition to a motion to dismiss, he could just dismiss the case.
redeux 3y ago
I’m America the attorney can be disbarred or having their license suspended for filing false information.

Can someone explain the potential repercussion from this kind of foolishness? Isn't non-accredited legal counseling illegal? Do these things apply also to Europe?

hkt 3y ago

Non-accredited legal counsel varies from place to place. In the UK there are "Mackenzie friends" who can't speak but can advise in court. As for filings, paralegals don't tend to need qualifications either, though most solicitors they work under will require it. In short, for the UK at least, no, nobody needs qualifications to do that kind of thing. Though it is clearly a good idea.

jruohonen 3y ago
Thanks for the clarification. But regarding this case more specifically: it seems that the judge in question is interpreting this as a deliberate attempt to deceive a court; hence, the question about repercussions.
- hkt 3y ago
  Good question. In the UK (and probably most common law systems) I guess it'd be treated as any vexatious application would be. As far as the judge is concerned there's no legal ground for distinguishing between a regular bit of code and an LLM. It'll be the human who is prosecuted, if that's what you're wondering.

UncleEntity 3y ago

> Can someone explain the potential repercussion from this kind of foolishness? Lawyer sues openAI for megabucks because they didn’t have a warning about using ChatGPT as a paralegal and they got sanctioned by the court. Thirty years of practicing law and they (plural, two lawyers involved) “accidentally” submitted the output from a multi-billion dollar company’s toy without doing any checks?

viraptor 3y ago
It's right there by the input box: > ChatGPT may produce inaccurate information about people, places, or facts. That really should be sufficient as "not fit for legal work without full review".
- sschueller 3y ago
  But wasn't it openAI bragging that ChatGPT4 can pass the bar exam?
  - viraptor 3y ago
    Passing a test and doing the job are different things. Do you think a 5yo who passed MS certification could do the job? https://www.electronicproducts.com/five-year-old-becomes-the-youngest-person-to-pass-a-microsoft-certified-professional-exam/ https://www.electronicproducts.com/five-year-old-becomes-the...
    - sschueller 3y ago
      Obviously not, but there are a lot of people who don't get that. Look how many people thought Tesla had full self driving when it says in the user agreement that they don't.
      - sebzim4500 3y ago
        This isn't hidden in a user agreement, it's on the front page.
        sschueller 3y ago
        Yes on the front page /s " Full Self-Driving Capability Build upon Enhanced Autopilot and order Full Self-Driving Capability on your Tesla. This doubles the number of active cameras from four to eight, enabling full self-driving in almost all circumstances, at what we believe will be a probability of safety at least twice as good as the average human driver. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle. All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you. Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available, as this is highly dependent on local regulatory approval. Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year. " https://web.archive.org/web/20171116234123/https://www.tesla.com/autopilot https://web.archive.org/web/20171116234123/https://www.tesla...

yarg 3y ago

Depends on the judge and his mood - given that it was filed in opposition to a motion to dismiss, he could just dismiss the case.

redeux 3y ago

I’m America the attorney can be disbarred or having their license suspended for filing false information.