4 ms·

I live in the US. I don't know a single person that's in prison. I don't know a single person that's been charged as a terrorist. I don't know a single perso

I live in the US. I don't know a single person that's in prison. I don't know a single person that's been charged as a terrorist. I don't know a single person whose business has been adversely affected by the government (such as the above). Seriously! But they keep telling me that it's happening all around me. They tell me it's a fascist police state.

jacquesm 15y ago
How many people do you know? Do they make up a reasonable cross-section of the US population?
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
ht_th 15y ago
It could be also a form of social segregation you're experiencing. For example, people charged with terrorism acts nowadays are found mainly in extremist religious circles and extremist right wing anti-government circles. (In the 1960s/1970s it would be extremist left-youth and extremist black-emancipation circles) The background of people in prison is often a weak economical-social position coupled with bad childhood experiences or psychological problems. If you do not grow up in these social circles (or you've been out of them for a long time) you just won't interact with people in prison or that are charged as terrorist. That does not mean that these reports aren't exaggerated -- I often wonder about the agenda of these journalists/news outlets--, but it does neither mean you're anecdotal experience is un-biased in measuring the situation.
- powertower 15y ago
  Where's the evidence that what happened to JotForms was a malicious act designed to shut them down? From what has been made public, it was most likely a blunder. Mistakes and oversights happen. > I often wonder about the agenda of these journalists/news outlets Headlines sell. > That does not mean that these reports aren't exaggerated. Out of the 300 million people living here in the US, half on the edge, I'd say if the sentiment you're trying to protect was even remotely true, every other person would know someone that's been affected by the police state. > but it does neither mean you're anecdotal experience is un-biased in measuring the situation. If my lack of terrorist friends makes me anecdotal, then you've already formed a seriously biased view of the US.
  - unseen 15y ago
    You can claim your DUI was a mistake, a blunder, an oversight on your part, but that won't save you from a conviction. There apparently seem to be no such consequences when the government decides to shut down and possibly kill a business by suspending the domain.
  - ht_th 15y ago
    Similar to yours :-) I don't have any family, friends, acquaintances, neighbors, or even connections to those people in jail or branded as terrorist. At the same time I do know that there are a lot of people in jail. Similarly, I don't know any poor people. Or any people with serious mental problems. Or people living off of welfare. Or religious people. Yet there are a lot of those. Does that mean that all the reports on these groups and their problems are exaggerated?
  - ScottBurson 15y ago
    > Mistakes and oversights happen. Which is exactly why we should be concerned about the removal of longstanding checks and balances designed to catch such mistakes before they do damage. Judges aren't perfect either, but requiring the government to have to convince a judge of its case before shutting down someone's business is still a very important piece of due process.
F_J_H 15y ago
As far as I know, I don't personally know anyone who: - has AIDS or is HIV+ - is being restricted from enjoying a freedom due to religious dogma - who has been a rape victim - who has been bullied in school for being gay - who has been discriminated against because of their race - who has been abused as a child However, I have no doubt whatsoever that there are many, many people out there (even in my city), who have suffered in one of these ways. And I'm grateful that there are those who support causes even when they don't know anyone personally effected. *Edit - typo
- rythie 15y ago
  People who have experienced the above don't tell everyone the meet about it. So, it's still possible you know people who've experienced the above, especially since many of things you list are quite common.
  - edanm 15y ago
    I'm pretty should that was the point.
mbateman 15y ago
We definitely do not live in a fascist police state. However, there are elements of the cultural and political scene that can be accurately described as fascist. To put it another way, it's certainly true that it is still possible to live a happy and basically free life in the US, and many other countries. However, it's also true that unjust laws has seriously negative effects that make many people less happy and free. These aren't contradictory. It's also possible to be basically healthy but have an illness, basically financially stable but have unexpected expenses, for a team to have good fundamental teamwork but still have some coordination problems, etc., etc. Despite an overall good state of affairs there can be bad things that are important to consider, especially when the trajectory seems to be that things are getting worse.
pessimizer 15y ago
I live in the US. I don't know a single person who works in construction. I don't know a single poet, or truck driver. I don't know any chemists, or anyone who has worked in a nuclear power plant. In fact, I've never even met a dog groomer. Seriously! But they keep telling me that it's happening all around me. They tell me that there are people that exist that I haven't met yet, and may never meet.
mixmax 15y ago
I take it that you're not a black man living in a rural area, because if you were statistically 13% of your friends would be in prison.
- GFKjunior 15y ago
  Very true, but more shocking is that more than 1 in a 100 Americans are behind bars. It actually costs more to send a person to prison for one year than tuition at Princeton! http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/28cnd-prison.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/28cnd-prison.html http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/11/chart-one-year-of-prison-costs-more-than-one-year-at-princeton/247629/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/11/chart-on...
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
rshigeta 15y ago
how many people do you know? have you asked everyone you do know? i know all of these people. After 9/11 a friend and I were taking texture pictures of rusted steel on a public road near an oil refinery - its 3 blocks off a major metro interstate and they offered to put us in prison. I just think you don't get out much.
trustfundbaby 15y ago
Just to confirm. Are you're saying that, if you don't see it ... it's not really happening?
neilk 15y ago
I understand your skepticism. But, understand that, even if the USA was a fascist state, you wouldn't notice a thing. Check out this excerpt from They Thought They Were Free. This should be required reading for every citizen of a democracy. http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html That said, I think we impoverish our understanding when we label everything we don't like as fascist. There's a vast array of horrible ways to run a country. In the 20th century alone we've had all sorts of variations, from Hitler to Honecker to Pol Pot. If you ask me, Americans aren't headed towards fascism, but something more like a banana republic.
sedev 15y ago
Assume that the US is a fascist state and you're one of the beneficiaries: you'd see the same thing that you're seeing now. You would also see the same thing if we assume that the US is not a fascist state. So that argument is of null import.

jacquesm 15y ago

How many people do you know? Do they make up a reasonable cross-section of the US population?

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

ht_th 15y ago

It could be also a form of social segregation you're experiencing. For example, people charged with terrorism acts nowadays are found mainly in extremist religious circles and extremist right wing anti-government circles. (In the 1960s/1970s it would be extremist left-youth and extremist black-emancipation circles) The background of people in prison is often a weak economical-social position coupled with bad childhood experiences or psychological problems. If you do not grow up in these social circles (or you've been out of them for a long time) you just won't interact with people in prison or that are charged as terrorist. That does not mean that these reports aren't exaggerated -- I often wonder about the agenda of these journalists/news outlets--, but it does neither mean you're anecdotal experience is un-biased in measuring the situation.

powertower 15y ago
Where's the evidence that what happened to JotForms was a malicious act designed to shut them down? From what has been made public, it was most likely a blunder. Mistakes and oversights happen. > I often wonder about the agenda of these journalists/news outlets Headlines sell. > That does not mean that these reports aren't exaggerated. Out of the 300 million people living here in the US, half on the edge, I'd say if the sentiment you're trying to protect was even remotely true, every other person would know someone that's been affected by the police state. > but it does neither mean you're anecdotal experience is un-biased in measuring the situation. If my lack of terrorist friends makes me anecdotal, then you've already formed a seriously biased view of the US.
- unseen 15y ago
  You can claim your DUI was a mistake, a blunder, an oversight on your part, but that won't save you from a conviction. There apparently seem to be no such consequences when the government decides to shut down and possibly kill a business by suspending the domain.
- ht_th 15y ago
  Similar to yours :-) I don't have any family, friends, acquaintances, neighbors, or even connections to those people in jail or branded as terrorist. At the same time I do know that there are a lot of people in jail. Similarly, I don't know any poor people. Or any people with serious mental problems. Or people living off of welfare. Or religious people. Yet there are a lot of those. Does that mean that all the reports on these groups and their problems are exaggerated?
- ScottBurson 15y ago
  > Mistakes and oversights happen. Which is exactly why we should be concerned about the removal of longstanding checks and balances designed to catch such mistakes before they do damage. Judges aren't perfect either, but requiring the government to have to convince a judge of its case before shutting down someone's business is still a very important piece of due process.

F_J_H 15y ago

As far as I know, I don't personally know anyone who: - has AIDS or is HIV+ - is being restricted from enjoying a freedom due to religious dogma - who has been a rape victim - who has been bullied in school for being gay - who has been discriminated against because of their race - who has been abused as a child However, I have no doubt whatsoever that there are many, many people out there (even in my city), who have suffered in one of these ways. And I'm grateful that there are those who support causes even when they don't know anyone personally effected. *Edit - typo

rythie 15y ago
People who have experienced the above don't tell everyone the meet about it. So, it's still possible you know people who've experienced the above, especially since many of things you list are quite common.
- edanm 15y ago
  I'm pretty should that was the point.

mbateman 15y ago

We definitely do not live in a fascist police state. However, there are elements of the cultural and political scene that can be accurately described as fascist. To put it another way, it's certainly true that it is still possible to live a happy and basically free life in the US, and many other countries. However, it's also true that unjust laws has seriously negative effects that make many people less happy and free. These aren't contradictory. It's also possible to be basically healthy but have an illness, basically financially stable but have unexpected expenses, for a team to have good fundamental teamwork but still have some coordination problems, etc., etc. Despite an overall good state of affairs there can be bad things that are important to consider, especially when the trajectory seems to be that things are getting worse.

pessimizer 15y ago

I live in the US. I don't know a single person who works in construction. I don't know a single poet, or truck driver. I don't know any chemists, or anyone who has worked in a nuclear power plant. In fact, I've never even met a dog groomer. Seriously! But they keep telling me that it's happening all around me. They tell me that there are people that exist that I haven't met yet, and may never meet.

mixmax 15y ago

I take it that you're not a black man living in a rural area, because if you were statistically 13% of your friends would be in prison.

GFKjunior 15y ago
Very true, but more shocking is that more than 1 in a 100 Americans are behind bars. It actually costs more to send a person to prison for one year than tuition at Princeton! http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/28cnd-prison.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/28cnd-prison.html http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/11/chart-one-year-of-prison-costs-more-than-one-year-at-princeton/247629/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/11/chart-on...
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

rshigeta 15y ago

how many people do you know? have you asked everyone you do know? i know all of these people. After 9/11 a friend and I were taking texture pictures of rusted steel on a public road near an oil refinery - its 3 blocks off a major metro interstate and they offered to put us in prison. I just think you don't get out much.

trustfundbaby 15y ago

Just to confirm. Are you're saying that, if you don't see it ... it's not really happening?

neilk 15y ago

I understand your skepticism. But, understand that, even if the USA was a fascist state, you wouldn't notice a thing. Check out this excerpt from They Thought They Were Free. This should be required reading for every citizen of a democracy. http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html That said, I think we impoverish our understanding when we label everything we don't like as fascist. There's a vast array of horrible ways to run a country. In the 20th century alone we've had all sorts of variations, from Hitler to Honecker to Pol Pot. If you ask me, Americans aren't headed towards fascism, but something more like a banana republic.

sedev 15y ago

Assume that the US is a fascist state and you're one of the beneficiaries: you'd see the same thing that you're seeing now. You would also see the same thing if we assume that the US is not a fascist state. So that argument is of null import.