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>>> If NATO didn't insist on expanding after the fall of the Soviet Union (as promised by James Baker and others) >Prominent members of Soviet leadership have

>>> If NATO didn't insist on expanding after the fall of the Soviet Union (as promised by James Baker and others) >Prominent members of Soviet leadership have explicitly denied that such subject ever came up. Nor did Russian representatives ever mention anything like it when most of Eastern Europe joined NATO in late 1990s and early 2000s. >This conspiracy theory emerged in late 2000s Some of us are actually old enough to have been adults when the Soviet Union fell and to have lived through that period of time. We were around to witness Baker promise that NATO would not expand "one inch Eastward" of Germany. >You are not offering some nuanced alternative view, but reurgitating known proven lies This is a comically bad effort to gaslight people who lived through the period and actually witnessed exactly what transpired. Unfortunately many younger people who weren't around to witness what actually happened, and many people who are uninformed and/or misinformed are easily misled by gaslighting like this. https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017...

chrysler 3y ago
>> Some of us are actually old enough to have been adults when the Soviet Union fell and to have lived through that period of time. So am I, and I remember very well how this hoax appeared out of nowhere in late 2000s. But as Shevardnadze points out, a suggestion of such talks in 1990 is anachronistic, because at the time, fall of the Warsaw Pact and the USSR was beyond comprehension and not discussed. According to him and other direct participants, the quotes that have been taken out of context to "prove" this hoax were in fact limited to German reunification. Eastern Europe getting into NATO and under "American nuclear umbrella" wasn't a serious topic until mid-1990s, first such ideas were floated in 1992-1993 timeframe and initially thought to be very far-fetched, because Russian forces were still in former Eastern bloc countries. The last Russian forces left Poland only in September 1993. Actual negotiations for the first countries started in July 1997 and were preceded by a treaty in May 1997 between NATO and Russia affirming the respect towards third countries freely choosing their alliances. To put it bluntly, the hoax doesn't fit the timeline of events.

chrysler 3y ago

>> Some of us are actually old enough to have been adults when the Soviet Union fell and to have lived through that period of time. So am I, and I remember very well how this hoax appeared out of nowhere in late 2000s. But as Shevardnadze points out, a suggestion of such talks in 1990 is anachronistic, because at the time, fall of the Warsaw Pact and the USSR was beyond comprehension and not discussed. According to him and other direct participants, the quotes that have been taken out of context to "prove" this hoax were in fact limited to German reunification. Eastern Europe getting into NATO and under "American nuclear umbrella" wasn't a serious topic until mid-1990s, first such ideas were floated in 1992-1993 timeframe and initially thought to be very far-fetched, because Russian forces were still in former Eastern bloc countries. The last Russian forces left Poland only in September 1993. Actual negotiations for the first countries started in July 1997 and were preceded by a treaty in May 1997 between NATO and Russia affirming the respect towards third countries freely choosing their alliances. To put it bluntly, the hoax doesn't fit the timeline of events.