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"Conclusion A lot of people say that X is slow because it’s a communication method, and it’s also outdated, buggy and difficult to maintain. However, from what

"Conclusion A lot of people say that X is slow because it’s a communication method, and it’s also outdated, buggy and difficult to maintain. However, from what I know about Wayland, Wayland is also a communication method, and Wayland is weaker than X in terms of functionality, so it is not suitable for desktop use. Although it has been 14 years since it was released, there is little progress in protocol development, and there are a lot of bugs in implementations. Moreover, the performance of the implementation is no different from that of X, the quality is below expectations, it is unstable, and the development maturity is low. Also, Wayland input method v1 and wlroots input method v2 are technically and functionally regressive to XIM that appeared in the 1990s. Simply put, Wayland in 2022 is more technologically obsolete than X. Many people have been interested in Wayland and have been cheering for it, but Wayland seems to have no hope. How can there be no books published on the subject of Wayland programming in 14 years? If each Linux distribution accelerates the migration to Wayland, users will ditch the Linux desktop. I look forward to seeing a new display server to replace Wayland. Thank you"

Spivak 3y ago
> users will ditch the Linux desktop Mhmm, this is what will push users from the Linux desktop. Not the billion other usability issues. I think this is a case of someone caring a whole heck of a lot about a small thing.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  His first error is daring to assume there are users who will ditch Linux desktop. His second error is daring to assume the Linux community cares about GUI. Until advice and tutorials stop beginning with "Open the terminal..." there is no such thing as Linux desktop.
  - zdragnar 3y ago
    I know several who did. They get macs through work, and that was "good enough" that they stopped caring. Personally I hate the macos desktop and window management, and prefer Linux on a few others things, so I'll keep using it as long as I can.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
hornban 3y ago
> How can there be no books published on the subject of Wayland programming in 14 years? Just my personal observation here, but I don't see a lot of value in programming books any longer due to how often things change. Usually I'm looking for official documentation or recently updated blog posts on the Internet.
speed_spread 3y ago
The difference being that X development has essentially _stopped_ because it's so complicated that nobody wants to touch it anymore. Does it work? Yes. Is it mature? Yes. Are apps more compatible with it? Yes. Will it evolve from there? No. While Wayland has been picking the slack slowly, it has been usable for years now and apart from the screen sharing issues and occasional driver problem. Wayland will continue to get better and make a graphics stack that's more adapted to modern needs.
- GauntletWizard 3y ago
  I'm one of the many users who will take a mature, well tested product over one that's experiencing "Ongoing Development" and lacks many of the features they need. Too much ink has already been shed around the faults of Wayland, but I'll put it pretty simply - The people on Wayland have no business designing user interfaces and are questionable at developer interfaces.
  - kaba0 3y ago
    If you mix up wayland with user interfaces, you are not even in the ballpark of getting the deal — pretty pretentious to have such a strong opinion on something you know jackshit about. Especially that the people on Wayland are literally the ex-maintainers of X.
- bandrami 3y ago
  The OpenBSD team is still developing the Xenocara X11 system, though AFAIK they aren't particularly adding features because the system is feature-complete (they aren't adding features to relayd either but it's not "abandoned" in any sense: as much as it conflicts with the CADT philosophy it's actually fine for software to be mature). While I don't like making predictions, if I had to guess I'd guess that in a decade's time the OpenBSD team will be maintaining the upstream display server for most Linux distros just like they maintain the encrypted shell and the BGP server for them.

Spivak 3y ago

> users will ditch the Linux desktop Mhmm, this is what will push users from the Linux desktop. Not the billion other usability issues. I think this is a case of someone caring a whole heck of a lot about a small thing.

Dalewyn 3y ago
His first error is daring to assume there are users who will ditch Linux desktop. His second error is daring to assume the Linux community cares about GUI. Until advice and tutorials stop beginning with "Open the terminal..." there is no such thing as Linux desktop.
- zdragnar 3y ago
  I know several who did. They get macs through work, and that was "good enough" that they stopped caring. Personally I hate the macos desktop and window management, and prefer Linux on a few others things, so I'll keep using it as long as I can.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

hornban 3y ago

> How can there be no books published on the subject of Wayland programming in 14 years? Just my personal observation here, but I don't see a lot of value in programming books any longer due to how often things change. Usually I'm looking for official documentation or recently updated blog posts on the Internet.

speed_spread 3y ago

The difference being that X development has essentially _stopped_ because it's so complicated that nobody wants to touch it anymore. Does it work? Yes. Is it mature? Yes. Are apps more compatible with it? Yes. Will it evolve from there? No. While Wayland has been picking the slack slowly, it has been usable for years now and apart from the screen sharing issues and occasional driver problem. Wayland will continue to get better and make a graphics stack that's more adapted to modern needs.

GauntletWizard 3y ago
I'm one of the many users who will take a mature, well tested product over one that's experiencing "Ongoing Development" and lacks many of the features they need. Too much ink has already been shed around the faults of Wayland, but I'll put it pretty simply - The people on Wayland have no business designing user interfaces and are questionable at developer interfaces.
- kaba0 3y ago
  If you mix up wayland with user interfaces, you are not even in the ballpark of getting the deal — pretty pretentious to have such a strong opinion on something you know jackshit about. Especially that the people on Wayland are literally the ex-maintainers of X.
bandrami 3y ago
The OpenBSD team is still developing the Xenocara X11 system, though AFAIK they aren't particularly adding features because the system is feature-complete (they aren't adding features to relayd either but it's not "abandoned" in any sense: as much as it conflicts with the CADT philosophy it's actually fine for software to be mature). While I don't like making predictions, if I had to guess I'd guess that in a decade's time the OpenBSD team will be maintaining the upstream display server for most Linux distros just like they maintain the encrypted shell and the BGP server for them.