3 ms·

Yet another reason to try to avoid getting infected with diseases. A 'stronger' immune system (which is really only 'stronger' at defending against the disease

Yet another reason to try to avoid getting infected with diseases. A 'stronger' immune system (which is really only 'stronger' at defending against the disease that you just caught!) isn't worth the risk of long-term side effects from a chronic infection.

permo-w 3y ago
> which is really only 'stronger' at defending against the disease that you just caught! if this was the case, we wouldn’t have the smallpox vaccine, or many others. not to mention the massive increase in general disease susceptibility when children aren’t exposed to these agents at a young age
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  I don't understand what you are saying, because it appears to not follow what I stated. (Edit: Okay, I've got it now.) A chickenpox infection as a child will indeed help prevent against future chickenpox infections (which, for this particular virus, are indeed worse when first infected as an adult). It may have some slight efficacy against other herpesviruses, too, or it could enable a stronger disease from a related virus due to antibody-dependent enhancement. But more likely a chickenpox infection, and related acquired immune responses, will do jack-all with respect to any other infectious agent.
  - meatmanek 3y ago
    > The smallpox vaccine is the first vaccine to have been developed against a contagious disease. In 1796, British physician Edward Jenner demonstrated that an infection with the relatively mild cowpox virus conferred immunity against the deadly smallpox virus. Cowpox served as a natural vaccine until the modern smallpox vaccine emerged in the 20th century. ... > The term vaccine derives from the Latin word for cow, reflecting the origins of smallpox vaccination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox_vaccine
  - permo-w 3y ago
    > more likely a chickenpox infection, and related acquired immune responses, will do jack-all with respect to any other infectious agent why is this?
    - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
      Because most viruses differ enough that they don't have similar recognition motifs (antigens). Sometimes a lucky person will get a "universal" response to an entire viral clade, but at some point the clades just diverge enough that they can't offer protection against each other. If you have to get infected with a pox virus, cowpox or chickenpox are good ones to get infected with. But it's better not to get any, if you have the option.
      - permo-w 3y ago
        do you have a source for this?
        anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        Just my general training in biology. I work mostly in non-animal organisms, but recall enough of my education and what I read during the COVID pandemic. This is a complex topic, and I was simplifying above. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-reactivity#In_immunology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-reactivity#In_immunology This seems to be a good article on the benefits and limits of cross-reactivity: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3352416/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3352416/ And here seems to be a decent review looking at Antibody-Dependent Enhancement, a key limitation of antibody cross-reactivity for viruses: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0161589022004710 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016158902... Basically getting infected by some things can help provide protection against some other things, can make infection by some other things worse, or can have no effect on protection against other things. All in all it's generally better to not get infected by a particular thing, but if you're going to be exposed to worse things that infection by the particular thing provides protection against this is an exception. A book chapter on infections causing, or curing autoimmune diseases: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK459437/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK459437/ And a review article on the same: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6723519/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6723519/ > Available data indicate that viral-induced autoimmunity can be activated through multiple mechanisms including molecular mimicry, epitope spreading, bystander activation, and immortalization of infected B cells. Contrarily, the protective effects can be achieved via regulatory immune responses which lead to the suppression of autoimmune phenomena.
saiya-jin 3y ago
Immunity not having challenges, especially early in life, is a sure recipe for a miserable life full of allergies (and probably more, autoimmune problems are a vast domain). Not sure I would want to take a small risk of topic discussed with almost sure chance of this. Maybe some form of risk is unavoidable, and part of life. Of course only till we fully crack our dna manipulation without any side effects, but thats 22nd century stuff at best.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  Environmental, non-disease challenges are important to develop proper immune response. Catching the flavor of the day does jack all, and might actually prompt some autoimmune responses and lymphomas (due to the increased activity of the immune system in response to infection). People who never acquire a chronic herpes zoster infection are highly unlikely to benefit from a shingles vaccine with respect to this sort of dementia.
DuckFeathers 3y ago
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refurb 3y ago
It kind of depends? For things like Chickenpox, it’s far better to be infected young (where it’s a mild disease) than old (where it can be quite severe).
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  It's even better to get vaccinated so that any infection has much decreased odds of becoming a chronic latent infection. Vaccinate enough people and eventually people may not get infected at all.

permo-w 3y ago

> which is really only 'stronger' at defending against the disease that you just caught! if this was the case, we wouldn’t have the smallpox vaccine, or many others. not to mention the massive increase in general disease susceptibility when children aren’t exposed to these agents at a young age

anonymouskimmer 3y ago
I don't understand what you are saying, because it appears to not follow what I stated. (Edit: Okay, I've got it now.) A chickenpox infection as a child will indeed help prevent against future chickenpox infections (which, for this particular virus, are indeed worse when first infected as an adult). It may have some slight efficacy against other herpesviruses, too, or it could enable a stronger disease from a related virus due to antibody-dependent enhancement. But more likely a chickenpox infection, and related acquired immune responses, will do jack-all with respect to any other infectious agent.
- meatmanek 3y ago
  > The smallpox vaccine is the first vaccine to have been developed against a contagious disease. In 1796, British physician Edward Jenner demonstrated that an infection with the relatively mild cowpox virus conferred immunity against the deadly smallpox virus. Cowpox served as a natural vaccine until the modern smallpox vaccine emerged in the 20th century. ... > The term vaccine derives from the Latin word for cow, reflecting the origins of smallpox vaccination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox_vaccine
- permo-w 3y ago
  > more likely a chickenpox infection, and related acquired immune responses, will do jack-all with respect to any other infectious agent why is this?
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    Because most viruses differ enough that they don't have similar recognition motifs (antigens). Sometimes a lucky person will get a "universal" response to an entire viral clade, but at some point the clades just diverge enough that they can't offer protection against each other. If you have to get infected with a pox virus, cowpox or chickenpox are good ones to get infected with. But it's better not to get any, if you have the option.
    - permo-w 3y ago
      do you have a source for this?
      - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        Just my general training in biology. I work mostly in non-animal organisms, but recall enough of my education and what I read during the COVID pandemic. This is a complex topic, and I was simplifying above. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-reactivity#In_immunology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-reactivity#In_immunology This seems to be a good article on the benefits and limits of cross-reactivity: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3352416/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3352416/ And here seems to be a decent review looking at Antibody-Dependent Enhancement, a key limitation of antibody cross-reactivity for viruses: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0161589022004710 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016158902... Basically getting infected by some things can help provide protection against some other things, can make infection by some other things worse, or can have no effect on protection against other things. All in all it's generally better to not get infected by a particular thing, but if you're going to be exposed to worse things that infection by the particular thing provides protection against this is an exception. A book chapter on infections causing, or curing autoimmune diseases: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK459437/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK459437/ And a review article on the same: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6723519/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6723519/ > Available data indicate that viral-induced autoimmunity can be activated through multiple mechanisms including molecular mimicry, epitope spreading, bystander activation, and immortalization of infected B cells. Contrarily, the protective effects can be achieved via regulatory immune responses which lead to the suppression of autoimmune phenomena.

saiya-jin 3y ago

Immunity not having challenges, especially early in life, is a sure recipe for a miserable life full of allergies (and probably more, autoimmune problems are a vast domain). Not sure I would want to take a small risk of topic discussed with almost sure chance of this. Maybe some form of risk is unavoidable, and part of life. Of course only till we fully crack our dna manipulation without any side effects, but thats 22nd century stuff at best.

anonymouskimmer 3y ago
Environmental, non-disease challenges are important to develop proper immune response. Catching the flavor of the day does jack all, and might actually prompt some autoimmune responses and lymphomas (due to the increased activity of the immune system in response to infection). People who never acquire a chronic herpes zoster infection are highly unlikely to benefit from a shingles vaccine with respect to this sort of dementia.

DuckFeathers 3y ago

[dead]

refurb 3y ago

It kind of depends? For things like Chickenpox, it’s far better to be infected young (where it’s a mild disease) than old (where it can be quite severe).

anonymouskimmer 3y ago
It's even better to get vaccinated so that any infection has much decreased odds of becoming a chronic latent infection. Vaccinate enough people and eventually people may not get infected at all.