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Another reason you won't find people using string templates to produce HTML in Lisp is that no one uses it for web development. This phenomenon where multiple l

Another reason you won't find people using string templates to produce HTML in Lisp is that no one uses it for web development. This phenomenon where multiple language features conspire to prevent misuse is called defense in depth and is one of the great strengths of the language.

AnonymousPlanet 3y ago
Historically, web development is among the most noteworthy uses of Lisp in business. Reddit and PG's work come to mind.
- idlewords 3y ago
  Reddit ran away from lisp as fast as it could once the original goal of using the language (to secure funding from YCombinator) had been met.
  - hajile 3y ago
    I don't think that's an accurate representation. They were merged with another company. Reddit guys knew both Lisp and Python. Other company coders only knew Python. Since then, they've had massive issues scaling Python in general and their ORM dependence in particular.
  - jhgb 3y ago
    Reddit apparently ran away from Lisp primarily because all the servers ran on FreeBSD while development ran on Macs and because at the time they were forced to use different Common Lisp implementations (OpenMCL on Mac and CMUCL on FreeBSD) so they couldn't even test what they were deploying, essentially. Today with SBCL that wouldn't have been an issue.
    - idlewords 3y ago
      Right, today there would be some other issue.
    - kazinator 3y ago
      Don't be so sure. People who want to develop and sort-of-test with one stack, and then deploy on another, will find a way to do it in 2023.
- pstuart 3y ago
  I've been on reddit since the beginning when it was effectively a lisp-weenie site (clued into its existence by pg (discovered via his blub essay)). It migrated to python very early in the game (via Aaron Swartz (rip)), and it's my understanding that it was that move that allowed them to scale it.
scarmig 3y ago
> This phenomenon where multiple language features conspire to prevent ~~misuse~~ use is called defense in depth and is one of the great strengths of the language. I kid, I kid. Lisp is great.
- zerocrates 3y ago
  Reasonably sure this was already the parent's joke
  - scarmig 3y ago
    Ah, slow this morning.
manicennui 3y ago
Except, you know, the site you are using right now, and a large number of sites that use Clojure/Clojurescript.
- idlewords 3y ago
  I could type a single open parenthesis and blow up this whole site.
  - eduction 3y ago
    this trolling would be funnier if you didn't obviously spend so much time posting here
- actuallyalys 3y ago
  Ironically, the dominant solution for dynamic HTML in Clojure apps, Hiccup, does not rely on macros as much as it relies on keyword and collection literals.
eduction 3y ago
Not only do they use it for web development, but they manage to regularly update and upgrade their Lisp based web apps (as opposed to ignoring customer emails because their pile of PHP/Perl is too hairy to debug).
jhgb 3y ago
> Another reason you won't find people using string templates to produce HTML in Lisp is that no one uses it for web development ...how does this change conditional probability? If of those people who use Lisp for web development, nobody uses strings, it's unrelated to how many people use Lisp for web development.

AnonymousPlanet 3y ago

Historically, web development is among the most noteworthy uses of Lisp in business. Reddit and PG's work come to mind.

idlewords 3y ago
Reddit ran away from lisp as fast as it could once the original goal of using the language (to secure funding from YCombinator) had been met.
- hajile 3y ago
  I don't think that's an accurate representation. They were merged with another company. Reddit guys knew both Lisp and Python. Other company coders only knew Python. Since then, they've had massive issues scaling Python in general and their ORM dependence in particular.
- jhgb 3y ago
  Reddit apparently ran away from Lisp primarily because all the servers ran on FreeBSD while development ran on Macs and because at the time they were forced to use different Common Lisp implementations (OpenMCL on Mac and CMUCL on FreeBSD) so they couldn't even test what they were deploying, essentially. Today with SBCL that wouldn't have been an issue.
  - idlewords 3y ago
    Right, today there would be some other issue.
  - kazinator 3y ago
    Don't be so sure. People who want to develop and sort-of-test with one stack, and then deploy on another, will find a way to do it in 2023.
pstuart 3y ago
I've been on reddit since the beginning when it was effectively a lisp-weenie site (clued into its existence by pg (discovered via his blub essay)). It migrated to python very early in the game (via Aaron Swartz (rip)), and it's my understanding that it was that move that allowed them to scale it.

scarmig 3y ago

> This phenomenon where multiple language features conspire to prevent ~~misuse~~ use is called defense in depth and is one of the great strengths of the language. I kid, I kid. Lisp is great.

zerocrates 3y ago
Reasonably sure this was already the parent's joke
- scarmig 3y ago
  Ah, slow this morning.

manicennui 3y ago

Except, you know, the site you are using right now, and a large number of sites that use Clojure/Clojurescript.

idlewords 3y ago
I could type a single open parenthesis and blow up this whole site.
- eduction 3y ago
  this trolling would be funnier if you didn't obviously spend so much time posting here
actuallyalys 3y ago
Ironically, the dominant solution for dynamic HTML in Clojure apps, Hiccup, does not rely on macros as much as it relies on keyword and collection literals.

eduction 3y ago

Not only do they use it for web development, but they manage to regularly update and upgrade their Lisp based web apps (as opposed to ignoring customer emails because their pile of PHP/Perl is too hairy to debug).

jhgb 3y ago

> Another reason you won't find people using string templates to produce HTML in Lisp is that no one uses it for web development ...how does this change conditional probability? If of those people who use Lisp for web development, nobody uses strings, it's unrelated to how many people use Lisp for web development.