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Does "local" mean people who are born in the US? If so, I'd ask: can they? STEM requires a supporting and an encouraging culture. I'm not sure the US had one (I

Does "local" mean people who are born in the US? If so, I'd ask: can they? STEM requires a supporting and an encouraging culture. I'm not sure the US had one (I understand many of people think the US does have one now, but I'm talking about 20 or 30 years ago). The pop culture berated nerds and geeks for years. The most popular kids in the school were cheerleaders and sports junkies and kids who could get their hands on alcohols and cigarettes -- this is just unfathomable in many other countries, especially Asian ones. And look at the pipeline! How many "local" kids went to STEM majors other than those who wanted to be doctors? How many kids thought first-year college maths and physics and organic chemistry are so-called weeder coursers? Heck, how many commenters on HN thought that they couldn't study well in high schools because XXX subject is all about rote memory? When it comes to studying, oh man, "toil" is a four-letter word for American people. Oh, you study too hard. Oh you have a lost childhood. Oh solving math problems is not FaIr to other kids, for it shadows the true talent. But when it comes to sports? Oh man, the tone totally changes. "Toil" is da word! Mileage matters! If you train hard, you get better results! Have you seen LA of 4am in the morning? Do you know that the kid next door trains 5 hours every day, and breaks his bones at least 3 times and still does not give up? Mommy wants you to know the story of whoever practicing free throws a thousand times a day. Daddy will use all the retirement savings to hire a coach of this bullshit sport that you would never make it to the top of, but hey don't be like that Asian family who spends all their money hiring science tutors. What a nation of hypocrisy, and now we are wondering why there are not enough locals in STEM classes?

alephnerd 3y ago
> Does "local" mean people who are born in the US Local means US Citizens and Permanent Residents (Green Card). > I'm not sure the US had one (I understand many of people think the US does have one now, but I'm talking about 20 or 30 years ago). There always has been a culture around STEM in the US. Maybe the social background you grew up with wasn't part of that. There are similar STEM hesitant groups within Asia as well (for example, the millions of Indian+Chinese students aiming for govt bureaucracy jobs, and the thousands going to business school/commerce)
- hintymad 3y ago
  > There always has been a culture around STEM in the US. Maybe the social background you grew up with wasn't part of that. If so, I'll be happy that I was wrong. I truly wish that the US had a vibrant culture of encouraging STEM. I'm not so sure for two reasons: all kinds of shows and movies, with a few exceptions, make fun of geeks. Paul Graham wrote this: http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html, and my geek friends and coworkers all confirmed similar experience. Quoting https://thegeekanthropologist.com/2014/10/17/freaks-geeks-a-cultural-history-of-the-term-geek/ https://thegeekanthropologist.com/2014/10/17/freaks-geeks-a-...: "For many years, geeks were ridiculed for their supposed lack of social graces and interest in obscure, weird or unusual forms of cultural and digital media. Once again, geeks were typified by their marginality and their difference. The representation of geeks in pop culture have replicated and almost cemented the validity of geek stereotypes. " I mean, why, why the interests of STEM subjects are "obscure, weird or unusual forms"?
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    I'm much younger than you (in my 20s) and in my experience STEM has been normalized and heavily evangelized in American culture now. Lots of younger SWEs, PMs, and SEs have entered the industry thanks to their experience playing around with mods in games like Minecraft, and even the stereotypical chad/jock is into gaming and technology now. And I say this as a former HS wrestler. Also, STEM has been heavily evangelized since I was growing up in the 2000s. > all kinds of shows and movies, with a few exceptions, make fun of geeks. Not anymore, especially with the media people my age (12-30) watch. For example, Anime, KDramas, and Youtube+TikTok+IG Influencers are much more popular than American shows now in my age demographic and all treat STEM with deference. > I mean, why, why the interests of STEM subjects are "obscure, weird or unusual forms"? Even your stereotypical "jocks" and "Barbies" major in STEM now and work in STEM. For example, most of my classmates when I studied CS were Fratbois (as am I) and Sorority Chicks, and STEM is viewed as a degree that will get you a white collar job with less grind and more money.
    - hintymad 3y ago
bobobob420 3y ago
quires a supporting and an encouraging culture. I'm not sure the US had one (I understand many of people think the US does have one now, but I'm talking about 20 or 30 years ago). The pop culture berated nerds and geeks for years. The most popular kids in the school were cheerleaders and sports junkies and kids who could get their hands on alcohols and cigarettes -- this is just unfathomable in many other countries, especially Asian ones. And look at the pipeline! How many "local" kids went to STEM majors other than those who wanted to be doctors? How many kids thought first-year college maths and physics and organic chemistry are so-called weeder coursers? Heck, how many commenters on HN thought that they couldn't study well in high schools because XXX subject is all about rote memory? You don't know anything about other countries. You think China and India with > 1 billion people each are all tech savants and scientists? It is the opposite. Theres 270 million people in poverty in India alone. The population of US is 330 million. Statistically of course there is a larger amount of STEM than US by population. It's a numbers game that also has to do with the advancement of the country and economic goals of its citizens, not 'culture'. It's literally determined by economics Companies can get indentured servants who are loyal and will work against toxicity and long hours that they can get rid of whenever they want. There is plenty of talent in America. The reason they are not utilized is for business and economic reasons. ie revenue/profitability/growth
- hintymad 3y ago
  > Theres 270 million people in poverty in India alone. I don't deny that. Poverty is different from culture, though. By culture I mean so many scientists and engineers, male or female, were household names in China. Are they in the US? By culture I mean teachers work hard to come up with questions that really help students understand fundamental concepts. How many US teachers do that? By the culture I mean this: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8296195/Chinese-girl-seven-study-parents-market-counter-day.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8296195/Chinese-gir.... This created national sensation in China. In contrast, did people in the US give a fuck about the average median GPA in Baltimore was 0.6 or something (some people did, of course, but I'm talking about a nation)? Did people give a fuck about physics teacher in grade 8 giving exam questions like "which one is heavier, pound or kilogram"? Did the nation give a fuck about we can't attract enough talents to become teachers? Or in general, did people give a fuck about the issues raised in the documentary Waiting for "Superman"?

alephnerd 3y ago

> Does "local" mean people who are born in the US Local means US Citizens and Permanent Residents (Green Card). > I'm not sure the US had one (I understand many of people think the US does have one now, but I'm talking about 20 or 30 years ago). There always has been a culture around STEM in the US. Maybe the social background you grew up with wasn't part of that. There are similar STEM hesitant groups within Asia as well (for example, the millions of Indian+Chinese students aiming for govt bureaucracy jobs, and the thousands going to business school/commerce)

hintymad 3y ago
> There always has been a culture around STEM in the US. Maybe the social background you grew up with wasn't part of that. If so, I'll be happy that I was wrong. I truly wish that the US had a vibrant culture of encouraging STEM. I'm not so sure for two reasons: all kinds of shows and movies, with a few exceptions, make fun of geeks. Paul Graham wrote this: http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html, and my geek friends and coworkers all confirmed similar experience. Quoting https://thegeekanthropologist.com/2014/10/17/freaks-geeks-a-cultural-history-of-the-term-geek/ https://thegeekanthropologist.com/2014/10/17/freaks-geeks-a-...: "For many years, geeks were ridiculed for their supposed lack of social graces and interest in obscure, weird or unusual forms of cultural and digital media. Once again, geeks were typified by their marginality and their difference. The representation of geeks in pop culture have replicated and almost cemented the validity of geek stereotypes. " I mean, why, why the interests of STEM subjects are "obscure, weird or unusual forms"?
- alephnerd 3y ago
  I'm much younger than you (in my 20s) and in my experience STEM has been normalized and heavily evangelized in American culture now. Lots of younger SWEs, PMs, and SEs have entered the industry thanks to their experience playing around with mods in games like Minecraft, and even the stereotypical chad/jock is into gaming and technology now. And I say this as a former HS wrestler. Also, STEM has been heavily evangelized since I was growing up in the 2000s. > all kinds of shows and movies, with a few exceptions, make fun of geeks. Not anymore, especially with the media people my age (12-30) watch. For example, Anime, KDramas, and Youtube+TikTok+IG Influencers are much more popular than American shows now in my age demographic and all treat STEM with deference. > I mean, why, why the interests of STEM subjects are "obscure, weird or unusual forms"? Even your stereotypical "jocks" and "Barbies" major in STEM now and work in STEM. For example, most of my classmates when I studied CS were Fratbois (as am I) and Sorority Chicks, and STEM is viewed as a degree that will get you a white collar job with less grind and more money.
  - hintymad 3y ago

bobobob420 3y ago

quires a supporting and an encouraging culture. I'm not sure the US had one (I understand many of people think the US does have one now, but I'm talking about 20 or 30 years ago). The pop culture berated nerds and geeks for years. The most popular kids in the school were cheerleaders and sports junkies and kids who could get their hands on alcohols and cigarettes -- this is just unfathomable in many other countries, especially Asian ones. And look at the pipeline! How many "local" kids went to STEM majors other than those who wanted to be doctors? How many kids thought first-year college maths and physics and organic chemistry are so-called weeder coursers? Heck, how many commenters on HN thought that they couldn't study well in high schools because XXX subject is all about rote memory? You don't know anything about other countries. You think China and India with > 1 billion people each are all tech savants and scientists? It is the opposite. Theres 270 million people in poverty in India alone. The population of US is 330 million. Statistically of course there is a larger amount of STEM than US by population. It's a numbers game that also has to do with the advancement of the country and economic goals of its citizens, not 'culture'. It's literally determined by economics Companies can get indentured servants who are loyal and will work against toxicity and long hours that they can get rid of whenever they want. There is plenty of talent in America. The reason they are not utilized is for business and economic reasons. ie revenue/profitability/growth

hintymad 3y ago
> Theres 270 million people in poverty in India alone. I don't deny that. Poverty is different from culture, though. By culture I mean so many scientists and engineers, male or female, were household names in China. Are they in the US? By culture I mean teachers work hard to come up with questions that really help students understand fundamental concepts. How many US teachers do that? By the culture I mean this: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8296195/Chinese-girl-seven-study-parents-market-counter-day.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8296195/Chinese-gir.... This created national sensation in China. In contrast, did people in the US give a fuck about the average median GPA in Baltimore was 0.6 or something (some people did, of course, but I'm talking about a nation)? Did people give a fuck about physics teacher in grade 8 giving exam questions like "which one is heavier, pound or kilogram"? Did the nation give a fuck about we can't attract enough talents to become teachers? Or in general, did people give a fuck about the issues raised in the documentary Waiting for "Superman"?