3 ms·

I read a conspiracy that Google has paid off Mozilla management to specifically sabotage the browser development. Actions like this make it hard to dispute the

I read a conspiracy that Google has paid off Mozilla management to specifically sabotage the browser development. Actions like this make it hard to dispute the moves that frequently seem deliberately anti-user.

evv 3y ago
It's not a conspiracy that Google pays Mozilla for default search engine placement. Maybe that arrangement led to the stagnation of Firefox, without malicious intent from any party. Hanlon's razor, yadda yadda
- letsdothisagain 3y ago
  Hanlon's razor only makes sense if you're a teenager posting on reddit. Just world theory and all that. Once you get into corporate politics it's the exact opposite. God help you if you ever get into the nuts and bolts of governmental, or gasp intergovernmental politics.
  - orangecat 3y ago
    Eh, from my experience in several large companies there's some malice, but there's way more incompetence.
    - pessimizer 3y ago
      From my experience, companies are happy to strategically feign incompetence, blindness and deafness.
dehrmann 3y ago
Th other conspiracy I've heard is Google subsidizes Mozilla so they have a credible claim there's competition in the market.
- mozman 3y ago
  This is the correct answer
  - warkdarrior 3y ago
    Why would Google try to prop up Firefox as a competitor? Both Safari and Edge on desktop are twice the market share of Firefox, so the browser market is competitive enough without Firefox. https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worl...
    - kuratkull 3y ago
      Chrome, edge and safari are just, well chrome, on a single family of rendering engines
    - wongarsu 3y ago
      Safari can probably be discounted since Apple discontinued the Windows version in 2012. A browser that can only run on 18% of desktops worldwide isn't necessarily the competitor Google is looking for. Edge is available on Windows, Linux and macOS, so it would probably do. But that would allow one of Google's biggest competitors to drop an under-performing product and lobby for antitrust against Google. Unlikely to happen, but a risk Google might not want to take. https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
    - jonas21 3y ago
      Google would probably prefer if Safari and Edge did not gain market share. They're both developed by large corporations that pose a major threat to Google. Firefox, not so much.
    - pessimizer 3y ago
      Safari and Edge (which is also Chrome) having twice the dismal market share of Firefox doesn't make the browser market competitive. Safari is an appliance delivered exclusively on machines manufactured by a single company that holds a small, though luxury, part of the market. Edge (is Chrome, and) is only available on one OS [edit: I'm guess I'm wrong about this, didn't imagine that Edge would be available on Macs.] Firefox is the only "credible" competitor, although Firefox's only profitable customer is Google itself.
DANmode 3y ago
Conspiracy theory
philistine 3y ago
That makes no sense. Mozilla goes so hard on the VPN ads exactly because it wants to diversify its revenues away from its vassalage to Google.
- worrycue 3y ago
  A pet theory of mine is Mozilla’s C-suite knows no matter how bad Firefox gets and how low their user count, Google will continue to fund them because Google likes something to point to if antitrust came knocking - in fact the lower Firefox’s influence the better as Chrome can then unilaterally control the web. So they spend all of Mozilla’s money on various BS like Pocket and now VPN to try to make more money so they can further increase their already high salaries, instead of reinvesting into Firefox - hence the anti-user intrusive ads, the reduction of head count while paying themselves millions of dollars.
tivert 3y ago
> I read a conspiracy that Google has paid off Mozilla management to specifically sabotage the browser development. Actions like this make it hard to dispute the moves that frequently seem deliberately anti-user. IIRC, didn't Mozilla lay off some R&D team that was doing some promising work on modernizing and improving its browser engine?
- slondr 3y ago
  That "promising work" was "inventing the Rust programming language," and, yes.
  - mlry 3y ago
    I think parent is refering to the servo team.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
  My annoyance is more the half-brained projects which Mozilla pursues. Then surprised Pikachu when they have to cut budgets and Firefox is impacted.
crossroadsguy 3y ago
Reminds of good old Mr Elop.

evv 3y ago

It's not a conspiracy that Google pays Mozilla for default search engine placement. Maybe that arrangement led to the stagnation of Firefox, without malicious intent from any party. Hanlon's razor, yadda yadda

letsdothisagain 3y ago
Hanlon's razor only makes sense if you're a teenager posting on reddit. Just world theory and all that. Once you get into corporate politics it's the exact opposite. God help you if you ever get into the nuts and bolts of governmental, or gasp intergovernmental politics.
- orangecat 3y ago
  Eh, from my experience in several large companies there's some malice, but there's way more incompetence.
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    From my experience, companies are happy to strategically feign incompetence, blindness and deafness.

dehrmann 3y ago

Th other conspiracy I've heard is Google subsidizes Mozilla so they have a credible claim there's competition in the market.

mozman 3y ago
This is the correct answer
- warkdarrior 3y ago
  Why would Google try to prop up Firefox as a competitor? Both Safari and Edge on desktop are twice the market share of Firefox, so the browser market is competitive enough without Firefox. https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worl...
  - kuratkull 3y ago
    Chrome, edge and safari are just, well chrome, on a single family of rendering engines
  - wongarsu 3y ago
    Safari can probably be discounted since Apple discontinued the Windows version in 2012. A browser that can only run on 18% of desktops worldwide isn't necessarily the competitor Google is looking for. Edge is available on Windows, Linux and macOS, so it would probably do. But that would allow one of Google's biggest competitors to drop an under-performing product and lobby for antitrust against Google. Unlikely to happen, but a risk Google might not want to take. https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
  - jonas21 3y ago
    Google would probably prefer if Safari and Edge did not gain market share. They're both developed by large corporations that pose a major threat to Google. Firefox, not so much.
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    Safari and Edge (which is also Chrome) having twice the dismal market share of Firefox doesn't make the browser market competitive. Safari is an appliance delivered exclusively on machines manufactured by a single company that holds a small, though luxury, part of the market. Edge (is Chrome, and) is only available on one OS [edit: I'm guess I'm wrong about this, didn't imagine that Edge would be available on Macs.] Firefox is the only "credible" competitor, although Firefox's only profitable customer is Google itself.

DANmode 3y ago

Conspiracy theory

philistine 3y ago

That makes no sense. Mozilla goes so hard on the VPN ads exactly because it wants to diversify its revenues away from its vassalage to Google.

worrycue 3y ago
A pet theory of mine is Mozilla’s C-suite knows no matter how bad Firefox gets and how low their user count, Google will continue to fund them because Google likes something to point to if antitrust came knocking - in fact the lower Firefox’s influence the better as Chrome can then unilaterally control the web. So they spend all of Mozilla’s money on various BS like Pocket and now VPN to try to make more money so they can further increase their already high salaries, instead of reinvesting into Firefox - hence the anti-user intrusive ads, the reduction of head count while paying themselves millions of dollars.

tivert 3y ago

> I read a conspiracy that Google has paid off Mozilla management to specifically sabotage the browser development. Actions like this make it hard to dispute the moves that frequently seem deliberately anti-user. IIRC, didn't Mozilla lay off some R&D team that was doing some promising work on modernizing and improving its browser engine?

slondr 3y ago
That "promising work" was "inventing the Rust programming language," and, yes.
- mlry 3y ago
  I think parent is refering to the servo team.
0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
My annoyance is more the half-brained projects which Mozilla pursues. Then surprised Pikachu when they have to cut budgets and Firefox is impacted.

crossroadsguy 3y ago

Reminds of good old Mr Elop.