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Isn't the requirement for a H1-B visa that your skills can not be "easily" replaced with a local person (which doesn't mean that there aren't local people with

Isn't the requirement for a H1-B visa that your skills can not be "easily" replaced with a local person (which doesn't mean that there aren't local people with the skill but that there are not enough "free"/"jobless" people with such skills). In that case while 90% is still a surprising high number I would expect at least 80% or so. Especially if you consider that desperation might make take them jobs with a salary or other conditions worse then what they would normally accept.

Sodman 3y ago
In reality the bar to clear this requirement is quite low. E.g. "We put an ad in the (physical) local newspaper one time for this job, with every single esoteric skill this individual has, listed as hard-requirements..." is typically sufficient to check the box and say "We've tried, nobody applied!".
- dathinab 3y ago
  just because you can cheat the system doesn't mean it's most times done In my experience companies write out jobs with the requirements they would like to have, then see who applies including from people which doesn't quite fulfill the requirements, and then pick who fits best independent of where they come from (if they can). I mean for them to intentionally come up with some trickery to allow someone _specific_ to get a H1-B visa often already means they want them enough so that they "conceptually" fulfill the requirements even if on paper for formal reasons they do no. Sure, they are probably cases where companies come up with some trickery to "wild card wide spread" allow people without the full qualification to get a H1-B visa to then combine this with some form of laborer abuse, but assuming the whole FANG industries is basically only doing this all the time is really quite a stretch IMHO.
  - Sodman 3y ago
    I was going to say that FANG companies don't make up a very large proportion of H1-B visas and that the majority go to Infosys, Tata, Cognizant and the like... But I just looked it up, and it turns out that trend has been reversed considerably in the past few years, which is great to see! 2016 numbers - https://h1bgrader.com/reports/sponsors/lca/2016 https://h1bgrader.com/reports/sponsors/lca/2016 2022 numbers - https://h1bgrader.com/reports/sponsors/lca/2022 https://h1bgrader.com/reports/sponsors/lca/2022
hintymad 3y ago
Does "local" mean people who are born in the US? If so, I'd ask: can they? STEM requires a supporting and an encouraging culture. I'm not sure the US had one (I understand many of people think the US does have one now, but I'm talking about 20 or 30 years ago). The pop culture berated nerds and geeks for years. The most popular kids in the school were cheerleaders and sports junkies and kids who could get their hands on alcohols and cigarettes -- this is just unfathomable in many other countries, especially Asian ones. And look at the pipeline! How many "local" kids went to STEM majors other than those who wanted to be doctors? How many kids thought first-year college maths and physics and organic chemistry are so-called weeder coursers? Heck, how many commenters on HN thought that they couldn't study well in high schools because XXX subject is all about rote memory? When it comes to studying, oh man, "toil" is a four-letter word for American people. Oh, you study too hard. Oh you have a lost childhood. Oh solving math problems is not FaIr to other kids, for it shadows the true talent. But when it comes to sports? Oh man, the tone totally changes. "Toil" is da word! Mileage matters! If you train hard, you get better results! Have you seen LA of 4am in the morning? Do you know that the kid next door trains 5 hours every day, and breaks his bones at least 3 times and still does not give up? Mommy wants you to know the story of whoever practicing free throws a thousand times a day. Daddy will use all the retirement savings to hire a coach of this bullshit sport that you would never make it to the top of, but hey don't be like that Asian family who spends all their money hiring science tutors. What a nation of hypocrisy, and now we are wondering why there are not enough locals in STEM classes?
- alephnerd 3y ago
  > Does "local" mean people who are born in the US Local means US Citizens and Permanent Residents (Green Card). > I'm not sure the US had one (I understand many of people think the US does have one now, but I'm talking about 20 or 30 years ago). There always has been a culture around STEM in the US. Maybe the social background you grew up with wasn't part of that. There are similar STEM hesitant groups within Asia as well (for example, the millions of Indian+Chinese students aiming for govt bureaucracy jobs, and the thousands going to business school/commerce)
  - hintymad 3y ago
returningfory2 3y ago
> Isn’t the requirement for a H1-B visa that your skills can not be "easily" replaced with a local person No, that is not the requirement. That is a common misconception, though. What you described is the requirement for an employment based green card. For H-1B the requirement is that you have a degree and are working in a “speciality occupation” related to that degree. It is formally independent of the current state of the job market, though companies are required to at least pay the “prevailing wage” which sort of encodes some information about the job market.
the_svd_doctor 3y ago
> Isn't the requirement for a H1-B visa that your skills can not be "easily" replaced with a local person No, that's for green card. That's part of the "PERM" step in EB2. Not for H1B.

Sodman 3y ago

In reality the bar to clear this requirement is quite low. E.g. "We put an ad in the (physical) local newspaper one time for this job, with every single esoteric skill this individual has, listed as hard-requirements..." is typically sufficient to check the box and say "We've tried, nobody applied!".

dathinab 3y ago
just because you can cheat the system doesn't mean it's most times done In my experience companies write out jobs with the requirements they would like to have, then see who applies including from people which doesn't quite fulfill the requirements, and then pick who fits best independent of where they come from (if they can). I mean for them to intentionally come up with some trickery to allow someone _specific_ to get a H1-B visa often already means they want them enough so that they "conceptually" fulfill the requirements even if on paper for formal reasons they do no. Sure, they are probably cases where companies come up with some trickery to "wild card wide spread" allow people without the full qualification to get a H1-B visa to then combine this with some form of laborer abuse, but assuming the whole FANG industries is basically only doing this all the time is really quite a stretch IMHO.
- Sodman 3y ago
  I was going to say that FANG companies don't make up a very large proportion of H1-B visas and that the majority go to Infosys, Tata, Cognizant and the like... But I just looked it up, and it turns out that trend has been reversed considerably in the past few years, which is great to see! 2016 numbers - https://h1bgrader.com/reports/sponsors/lca/2016 https://h1bgrader.com/reports/sponsors/lca/2016 2022 numbers - https://h1bgrader.com/reports/sponsors/lca/2022 https://h1bgrader.com/reports/sponsors/lca/2022

hintymad 3y ago

Does "local" mean people who are born in the US? If so, I'd ask: can they? STEM requires a supporting and an encouraging culture. I'm not sure the US had one (I understand many of people think the US does have one now, but I'm talking about 20 or 30 years ago). The pop culture berated nerds and geeks for years. The most popular kids in the school were cheerleaders and sports junkies and kids who could get their hands on alcohols and cigarettes -- this is just unfathomable in many other countries, especially Asian ones. And look at the pipeline! How many "local" kids went to STEM majors other than those who wanted to be doctors? How many kids thought first-year college maths and physics and organic chemistry are so-called weeder coursers? Heck, how many commenters on HN thought that they couldn't study well in high schools because XXX subject is all about rote memory? When it comes to studying, oh man, "toil" is a four-letter word for American people. Oh, you study too hard. Oh you have a lost childhood. Oh solving math problems is not FaIr to other kids, for it shadows the true talent. But when it comes to sports? Oh man, the tone totally changes. "Toil" is da word! Mileage matters! If you train hard, you get better results! Have you seen LA of 4am in the morning? Do you know that the kid next door trains 5 hours every day, and breaks his bones at least 3 times and still does not give up? Mommy wants you to know the story of whoever practicing free throws a thousand times a day. Daddy will use all the retirement savings to hire a coach of this bullshit sport that you would never make it to the top of, but hey don't be like that Asian family who spends all their money hiring science tutors. What a nation of hypocrisy, and now we are wondering why there are not enough locals in STEM classes?

alephnerd 3y ago
> Does "local" mean people who are born in the US Local means US Citizens and Permanent Residents (Green Card). > I'm not sure the US had one (I understand many of people think the US does have one now, but I'm talking about 20 or 30 years ago). There always has been a culture around STEM in the US. Maybe the social background you grew up with wasn't part of that. There are similar STEM hesitant groups within Asia as well (for example, the millions of Indian+Chinese students aiming for govt bureaucracy jobs, and the thousands going to business school/commerce)
- hintymad 3y ago

returningfory2 3y ago

> Isn’t the requirement for a H1-B visa that your skills can not be "easily" replaced with a local person No, that is not the requirement. That is a common misconception, though. What you described is the requirement for an employment based green card. For H-1B the requirement is that you have a degree and are working in a “speciality occupation” related to that degree. It is formally independent of the current state of the job market, though companies are required to at least pay the “prevailing wage” which sort of encodes some information about the job market.

the_svd_doctor 3y ago

> Isn't the requirement for a H1-B visa that your skills can not be "easily" replaced with a local person No, that's for green card. That's part of the "PERM" step in EB2. Not for H1B.