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I was talking to a recruiter who told me H1Bs were taking almost any offer. Which is what crashed the tech compensation. Why these people are even allowed to st

I was talking to a recruiter who told me H1Bs were taking almost any offer. Which is what crashed the tech compensation. Why these people are even allowed to stay in the event of mass layoffs is beyond me. So many american college graduates cannot find a job

ivalm 3y ago
Because these people built a life in the US and benefitted the US tremendously. The solution isn’t to kick them out, it’s to give them permanent residence so they don’t constantly live with the sword hanging over them.
- epicureanideal 3y ago
  But even in that case we should reduce NEW H1B applications for the next couple of years, right? Is that being done?
  - dangwhy 3y ago
    no but there are several proposals to increase the cap.
    - throwawa14223 3y ago
      It seems very analogous to scabs during a strike.
  - Sodman 3y ago
    As of May 2023 there are[0] over 300,000 tech job listings open and unfilled across the country. There are an additional 65,000 H1B visas available each year to applicants with bachelor's degrees in STEM, and an additional 20,000 degrees available for those with masters degrees in STEM. So those +85,000 individuals wouldn't even cover one third of the currently open positions (and notably, more positions are opening every day right now, where the cap is only renewed annually). [0] https://www.computerworld.com/article/3542681/how-many-jobs-are-available-in-technology.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3542681/how-many-jobs-...
    - richwater 3y ago
      Raise wages. Don't import cheap labor.
      - Sodman 3y ago
        Why not both? They don't have to be mutually exclusive! For example - I'd be in favor of abolishing the current H1-B lottery in favor of taking in the first 85,000* applicants with the highest paying job offers. Maybe have some carve-outs based on sector, weighted by demand, so eg academics aren't competing with SV-tech salaries. Not a perfect solution, but solves a lot of the major problems we have today. *I also think we should increase the cap
    - epicureanideal 3y ago
      Are you sure those 300,000 are not “ghost jobs”, etc? I know several people who are highly skilled and have been looking for work for a long time.
    - throwawa14223 3y ago
      So stop diluting our power against the owners.
      - oofta-boofta 3y ago
        Don't bother. I knew this guy from Solo and to say he's a company simp is putting it mildly.
    - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
      Does this confuse the topic a bit? I have two tech jobs available, but can not hire H1B, and even if I could, it wouldn’t know how. Shouldn’t we consider how many of the tech jobs available that H1B holders could fill?
  - ivalm 3y ago
    Getting highly skilled crème of the crop people into the US increases the pie for everyone. We should allow more such people in.
- lelanthran 3y ago
  That's a reason based on being empathetic to immigrants. IOW, it's not very convincing to people of a certain mindset. There's a better reason for not kicking talented and rare skills out of a country: you're losing expensive talent.
jkubicek 3y ago
> Why these people are even allowed to stay "these people" are our peers and coworkers. They have families, friends, houses and possessions. Booting them out of the US with little to no warning is just plain cruel.
- throwaway5959 3y ago
  How is it cruel to enforce the laws that are on the books? Surely H1-Bs are aware of the terms and conditions of their visa.
  - EatingWithForks 3y ago
    Laws can be cruel.
  - howinteresting 3y ago
    There are many H1Bs who would file for asylum if they were forced to leave the US (eg outspoken atheists from theocratic countries, queer and trans people, etc). Do you want to burden the asylum system even more?
    - bruceb 3y ago
      What is "many" because most don't come from countries anywhere near that.
      - howinteresting 3y ago
        Most H1Bs are from India (due to backlogs), and many are in queer relationships and marriages which aren't recognized there. Iran is another country from which many accomplished people are openly against the Islamist regime.
        bruceb 3y ago
        again, zero quantifiable. Just "many". Biden hugged Modi less than a week ago. There are gay hangouts in Bangalore. Nearly every major company tech company has office in India. Saying that people need to claim asylum from India is insulting.
purpleblue 3y ago
I'm a citizen but if I lost my job, I too would take almost any offer. Having a job is infinitely better than no job and holding out for a much higher offer.
feyman_r 3y ago
H1B visa rules require a minimum salary based on location. It’s not that they can take ‘almost any offer’. The offer also has to satisfy the Labor Condition Application.
- yazaddaruvala 3y ago
  The minimum salary really should be increased these days. Given the current income percentiles in the US (https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percentiles/ https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percen...). The current H1B min-salary is $60k, which is below the median household wage in the US. The min-salary should instead be pegged to the p90, which is currently at $130k. That way foreign workers (which includes myself and many friends) should absolutely be held to the highest standard and be the best and the brightest and pushing the bar higher for 90% of US citizens.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > The current H1B min-salary is $60k, which is below the median household wage Why is household even relevant here? Its above the annualized amount of the median full-time weekly pay.
    - Dork1234 3y ago
      Until recently spouses of H1-B visa holders were not allowed to work (I don't think they should either). You can reasonably expect a college educated person to want to start a family, and would expect them to be able to provide for their family if they have an in demand job.
      - yazaddaruvala 3y ago
        > Until recently spouses of H1-B visa holders were not allowed to work (I don't think they should either). FWIW, I disagree with this one point. I know a lot of partners of H1Bs and there is a large psychological toll to not being allowed to "contribute to society" if you are able and wanting to. There is also a large psychological toll to moving to a new country, a lot of America's adult friendships are created in the workplace. Finally there is a large psychological toll to not having independence in making some side money to be able to spend it the way you want (even if the money earner "gifts" that freedom - because why wouldn't they - there can be a guilt associated with using the money). Therefore, I do think its overall worthwhile for partners of H1Bs to be allowed to work if they so choose. That said, I do feel like the minimum household salary for getting an H1B should be high enough to compensate for potentially both people working in the US, in a way that helps uplift wages for US citizens. That might mean using p91 or p95, I'm not qualified to pick the exact value, but I do think the general strategy would be best for "the best and brightest" immigrant families(or individuals) and for citizens.
aiisahik 3y ago
American college graduates can absolutely find jobs. Unemployment at record lows. They just need to be competitive in terms of their salary and role expectations vs others in the market. BTW the real competition here for American tech workers is not the h1b worker who will take any job - it's the LATAM / Eastern European worker with 15 yrs of experience available for $100k, no payroll tax, no benefits.
- stcroixx 3y ago
  An American company can't hire those workers without either an H1B or moving the company from American to LATAM / Eastern Europe.
  - aiisahik 3y ago
    LOL what world do you live in? What do you think half of startups do these days?
  - ojhughes 3y ago
    They do this all the time by opening an office in those countries
    - aiisahik 3y ago
      What office?
- alephnerd 3y ago
  The LATAM worker doesn't exist. The competition is the Eastern European+Asian+Israeli developer with 15 yrs of experience available for $100k.
  - aiisahik 3y ago
    I hired 20 of them. Trust me they exist.
    - 3y ago
EatingWithForks 3y ago
H1Bs taking almost any offer is the fault of the visa system, not the fault of the immigrants.
incone123 3y ago
"Why these people are even allowed to stay in the event of mass layoffs" Because those are the terms of their visas. The compensation crash might be averted by giving h1bs better rights in the form of a longer time to find a new job - then they could negotiate their salaries the same as you do.

ivalm 3y ago

Because these people built a life in the US and benefitted the US tremendously. The solution isn’t to kick them out, it’s to give them permanent residence so they don’t constantly live with the sword hanging over them.

epicureanideal 3y ago
But even in that case we should reduce NEW H1B applications for the next couple of years, right? Is that being done?
- dangwhy 3y ago
  no but there are several proposals to increase the cap.
  - throwawa14223 3y ago
    It seems very analogous to scabs during a strike.
- Sodman 3y ago
  As of May 2023 there are[0] over 300,000 tech job listings open and unfilled across the country. There are an additional 65,000 H1B visas available each year to applicants with bachelor's degrees in STEM, and an additional 20,000 degrees available for those with masters degrees in STEM. So those +85,000 individuals wouldn't even cover one third of the currently open positions (and notably, more positions are opening every day right now, where the cap is only renewed annually). [0] https://www.computerworld.com/article/3542681/how-many-jobs-are-available-in-technology.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3542681/how-many-jobs-...
  - richwater 3y ago
    Raise wages. Don't import cheap labor.
    - Sodman 3y ago
      Why not both? They don't have to be mutually exclusive! For example - I'd be in favor of abolishing the current H1-B lottery in favor of taking in the first 85,000* applicants with the highest paying job offers. Maybe have some carve-outs based on sector, weighted by demand, so eg academics aren't competing with SV-tech salaries. Not a perfect solution, but solves a lot of the major problems we have today. *I also think we should increase the cap
  - epicureanideal 3y ago
    Are you sure those 300,000 are not “ghost jobs”, etc? I know several people who are highly skilled and have been looking for work for a long time.
  - throwawa14223 3y ago
    So stop diluting our power against the owners.
    - oofta-boofta 3y ago
      Don't bother. I knew this guy from Solo and to say he's a company simp is putting it mildly.
  - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
    Does this confuse the topic a bit? I have two tech jobs available, but can not hire H1B, and even if I could, it wouldn’t know how. Shouldn’t we consider how many of the tech jobs available that H1B holders could fill?
- ivalm 3y ago
  Getting highly skilled crème of the crop people into the US increases the pie for everyone. We should allow more such people in.
lelanthran 3y ago
That's a reason based on being empathetic to immigrants. IOW, it's not very convincing to people of a certain mindset. There's a better reason for not kicking talented and rare skills out of a country: you're losing expensive talent.

jkubicek 3y ago

> Why these people are even allowed to stay "these people" are our peers and coworkers. They have families, friends, houses and possessions. Booting them out of the US with little to no warning is just plain cruel.

throwaway5959 3y ago
How is it cruel to enforce the laws that are on the books? Surely H1-Bs are aware of the terms and conditions of their visa.
- EatingWithForks 3y ago
  Laws can be cruel.
- howinteresting 3y ago
  There are many H1Bs who would file for asylum if they were forced to leave the US (eg outspoken atheists from theocratic countries, queer and trans people, etc). Do you want to burden the asylum system even more?
  - bruceb 3y ago
    What is "many" because most don't come from countries anywhere near that.
    - howinteresting 3y ago
      Most H1Bs are from India (due to backlogs), and many are in queer relationships and marriages which aren't recognized there. Iran is another country from which many accomplished people are openly against the Islamist regime.
      - bruceb 3y ago
        again, zero quantifiable. Just "many". Biden hugged Modi less than a week ago. There are gay hangouts in Bangalore. Nearly every major company tech company has office in India. Saying that people need to claim asylum from India is insulting.

purpleblue 3y ago

I'm a citizen but if I lost my job, I too would take almost any offer. Having a job is infinitely better than no job and holding out for a much higher offer.

feyman_r 3y ago

H1B visa rules require a minimum salary based on location. It’s not that they can take ‘almost any offer’. The offer also has to satisfy the Labor Condition Application.

yazaddaruvala 3y ago
The minimum salary really should be increased these days. Given the current income percentiles in the US (https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percentiles/ https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percen...). The current H1B min-salary is $60k, which is below the median household wage in the US. The min-salary should instead be pegged to the p90, which is currently at $130k. That way foreign workers (which includes myself and many friends) should absolutely be held to the highest standard and be the best and the brightest and pushing the bar higher for 90% of US citizens.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > The current H1B min-salary is $60k, which is below the median household wage Why is household even relevant here? Its above the annualized amount of the median full-time weekly pay.
  - Dork1234 3y ago
    Until recently spouses of H1-B visa holders were not allowed to work (I don't think they should either). You can reasonably expect a college educated person to want to start a family, and would expect them to be able to provide for their family if they have an in demand job.
    - yazaddaruvala 3y ago
      > Until recently spouses of H1-B visa holders were not allowed to work (I don't think they should either). FWIW, I disagree with this one point. I know a lot of partners of H1Bs and there is a large psychological toll to not being allowed to "contribute to society" if you are able and wanting to. There is also a large psychological toll to moving to a new country, a lot of America's adult friendships are created in the workplace. Finally there is a large psychological toll to not having independence in making some side money to be able to spend it the way you want (even if the money earner "gifts" that freedom - because why wouldn't they - there can be a guilt associated with using the money). Therefore, I do think its overall worthwhile for partners of H1Bs to be allowed to work if they so choose. That said, I do feel like the minimum household salary for getting an H1B should be high enough to compensate for potentially both people working in the US, in a way that helps uplift wages for US citizens. That might mean using p91 or p95, I'm not qualified to pick the exact value, but I do think the general strategy would be best for "the best and brightest" immigrant families(or individuals) and for citizens.

aiisahik 3y ago

American college graduates can absolutely find jobs. Unemployment at record lows. They just need to be competitive in terms of their salary and role expectations vs others in the market. BTW the real competition here for American tech workers is not the h1b worker who will take any job - it's the LATAM / Eastern European worker with 15 yrs of experience available for $100k, no payroll tax, no benefits.

stcroixx 3y ago
An American company can't hire those workers without either an H1B or moving the company from American to LATAM / Eastern Europe.
- aiisahik 3y ago
  LOL what world do you live in? What do you think half of startups do these days?
- ojhughes 3y ago
  They do this all the time by opening an office in those countries
  - aiisahik 3y ago
    What office?
alephnerd 3y ago
The LATAM worker doesn't exist. The competition is the Eastern European+Asian+Israeli developer with 15 yrs of experience available for $100k.
- aiisahik 3y ago
  I hired 20 of them. Trust me they exist.
  - 3y ago

EatingWithForks 3y ago

H1Bs taking almost any offer is the fault of the visa system, not the fault of the immigrants.

incone123 3y ago

"Why these people are even allowed to stay in the event of mass layoffs" Because those are the terms of their visas. The compensation crash might be averted by giving h1bs better rights in the form of a longer time to find a new job - then they could negotiate their salaries the same as you do.