4 ms·

We didn't just move species around, we essentially created new ones that exist solely under our care.

867-5309 3y ago
this is why I try to practice pescetarianism. re gp's beef, chicken, pork: compare these animals to those they likely devolved from - dairy cattle from gazelles, antelope; poultry from cassowaries, ostriches; farm pigs from wild boar.. there is barely any resemblance left between these animals, having traded through inbreeding agility, physique, diet and genetic diversity for meat per kg per sqft per feed and docility. fish are the only remaining palatable animals most unfucked by humans
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  Does it matter to your body if you eat meat from a water buffalo, or from a frog, or from a whale? Not that much. You can eat almost any animal. You can even eat insects. So why would it matter that a modern chicjen is different that it's ancestor? Assuming it has space to run around and is not factory farmed, it wouldn't matter.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    People eat insects all the time. What do you Think crab, shrimp, and lobsters are?
    - 867-5309 3y ago
      cousins at best!
  - 867-5309 3y ago
    probably not, but by that point it just comes down to protein source, of which pulses and fungi are arguably better alternatives to meat it matters because of the long term effects on health and ecology
- jsjohnst 3y ago
  > dairy cattle Cattle are an older species than humans. > fish are the only remaining palatable animals most unfucked by humans Hate to break it to you, but a non-insignificant portion of store bought fish was cultivated / farmed.
  - 867-5309 3y ago
    >Cattle are an older species than humans. incorrect. humans tamed the aurochs around 10,000 years ago and the most common dairy cattle breed today, the Holstein, was bred around 2,000 years ago >Hate to break it to you, but a non-insignificant portion of store bought fish was cultivated / farmed. you're not really breaking anything. this is a completely different sense of "farming". their genetics and physiology have not been altered to the same extent as dairy cattle, nor do we interfere with their evolution by selectively breeding. "farmed" fish are not fat and docile. so any fish you eat today is likely to be the same fish you would have eaten 300,000 years ago
    - jsjohnst 3y ago
      > their genetics and physiology have not been altered to the same extent as dairy cattle, nor do we interfere with their evolution by selectively breeding. You are flat wrong.
      - 867-5309 3y ago
        you are entitled to an opinion
        jsjohnst 3y ago
        > you are entitled to an opinion Jenny tell ya that?
        867-5309 3y ago
        ?
- robocat 3y ago
  > pescetarianism Yeah, fuck the planet! “31% of the world's wild fish stocks are estimated to be overfished, 58% fully exploited” and we fish for huge amounts of non-edible fish as a feedstock for aquaculture. Discl: I do eat fish.
  - 867-5309 3y ago
    as opposed to "31% of the world's grain is used to feed livestock, 58% of humans are underfed", deforestation in favour of establishing farmland, methane buildup.. I imagine aqua feedstock is comprised of castoffs from the fishing industry, similar to cat/dog food
    - robocat 3y ago
      global landings of forage fish have trended downward (Extended Data Fig. 2), reflecting full to overexploitation, and harvest restrictions (for example, in Peru) to prevent fishing above maximum sustainable yield levels. the annual catch of forage fish used to make fishmeal and fish oil decreased from 23 Mt to 16 Mt (refs. 47,48) (Extended Data Fig. 3). Global production of fishmeal from capture fisheries and trimmings decreased over the same period from 6.6 to 4.8 Mt (ref. 17). The production of fish oil declined from around 1.5 to 1.0 Mt and has been stable around 1.0 Mt during the past decade. So fish meal is ~3/4 made up of non-edible fish (forage fisheries) and at most 1/4 trimmings (in 2017). Figures do seem to show that most ocean fishing is for human consumption, but 16Mt of forage fishing is still more than a single digit percentage of total ocean fishing. About 75% of fish meal is used for farm fisheries (aquaculture), the other 25% for animal farming on land. Thank you - it is always good to be induced to double-check my assumptions! I don’t really know much about the topic except from some shallow googling (but that still makes me more knowledgeable than most). I totally agree land farming is mostly very damaging, but it is visible and an individual can potentially control their impact on land. The damage by ocean fisheries and aquaculture is largely invisible, and it is very difficult to control an individual’s impact when eating fish: and unobviously the impact is very heavy.

this is why I try to practice pescetarianism. re gp's beef, chicken, pork: compare these animals to those they likely devolved from - dairy cattle from gazelles, antelope; poultry from cassowaries, ostriches; farm pigs from wild boar.. there is barely any resemblance left between these animals, having traded through inbreeding agility, physique, diet and genetic diversity for meat per kg per sqft per feed and docility. fish are the only remaining palatable animals most unfucked by humans

ClumsyPilot 3y ago
Does it matter to your body if you eat meat from a water buffalo, or from a frog, or from a whale? Not that much. You can eat almost any animal. You can even eat insects. So why would it matter that a modern chicjen is different that it's ancestor? Assuming it has space to run around and is not factory farmed, it wouldn't matter.
- TylerE 3y ago
  People eat insects all the time. What do you Think crab, shrimp, and lobsters are?
  - 867-5309 3y ago
    cousins at best!
- 867-5309 3y ago
  probably not, but by that point it just comes down to protein source, of which pulses and fungi are arguably better alternatives to meat it matters because of the long term effects on health and ecology
jsjohnst 3y ago
> dairy cattle Cattle are an older species than humans. > fish are the only remaining palatable animals most unfucked by humans Hate to break it to you, but a non-insignificant portion of store bought fish was cultivated / farmed.
- 867-5309 3y ago
  >Cattle are an older species than humans. incorrect. humans tamed the aurochs around 10,000 years ago and the most common dairy cattle breed today, the Holstein, was bred around 2,000 years ago >Hate to break it to you, but a non-insignificant portion of store bought fish was cultivated / farmed. you're not really breaking anything. this is a completely different sense of "farming". their genetics and physiology have not been altered to the same extent as dairy cattle, nor do we interfere with their evolution by selectively breeding. "farmed" fish are not fat and docile. so any fish you eat today is likely to be the same fish you would have eaten 300,000 years ago
  - jsjohnst 3y ago
    > their genetics and physiology have not been altered to the same extent as dairy cattle, nor do we interfere with their evolution by selectively breeding. You are flat wrong.
    - 867-5309 3y ago
      you are entitled to an opinion
      - jsjohnst 3y ago
        > you are entitled to an opinion Jenny tell ya that?
        867-5309 3y ago
        ?
robocat 3y ago
> pescetarianism Yeah, fuck the planet! “31% of the world's wild fish stocks are estimated to be overfished, 58% fully exploited” and we fish for huge amounts of non-edible fish as a feedstock for aquaculture. Discl: I do eat fish.
- 867-5309 3y ago
  as opposed to "31% of the world's grain is used to feed livestock, 58% of humans are underfed", deforestation in favour of establishing farmland, methane buildup.. I imagine aqua feedstock is comprised of castoffs from the fishing industry, similar to cat/dog food
  - robocat 3y ago
    global landings of forage fish have trended downward (Extended Data Fig. 2), reflecting full to overexploitation, and harvest restrictions (for example, in Peru) to prevent fishing above maximum sustainable yield levels. the annual catch of forage fish used to make fishmeal and fish oil decreased from 23 Mt to 16 Mt (refs. 47,48) (Extended Data Fig. 3). Global production of fishmeal from capture fisheries and trimmings decreased over the same period from 6.6 to 4.8 Mt (ref. 17). The production of fish oil declined from around 1.5 to 1.0 Mt and has been stable around 1.0 Mt during the past decade. So fish meal is ~3/4 made up of non-edible fish (forage fisheries) and at most 1/4 trimmings (in 2017). Figures do seem to show that most ocean fishing is for human consumption, but 16Mt of forage fishing is still more than a single digit percentage of total ocean fishing. About 75% of fish meal is used for farm fisheries (aquaculture), the other 25% for animal farming on land. Thank you - it is always good to be induced to double-check my assumptions! I don’t really know much about the topic except from some shallow googling (but that still makes me more knowledgeable than most). I totally agree land farming is mostly very damaging, but it is visible and an individual can potentially control their impact on land. The damage by ocean fisheries and aquaculture is largely invisible, and it is very difficult to control an individual’s impact when eating fish: and unobviously the impact is very heavy.