4 ms·

Foxconn Plans to Lift Pay Sharply at Factories in China

30 points by benackles 15y ago

Volpe 15y ago
Great to see this happening! Good on foxconn for responding, and hopefully they keep improving their conditions of work.
learc83 15y ago
Foxconn also has plans to install millions of assembly robots in the next few years. All of this push to raise employee pay will more than likely speed up the adoption of automation and end up drastically cutting unskilled jobs a bit faster.
- Joakal 15y ago
  Already, there are huge queues for Foxconn positions even if the work conditions are abysmal. The Chinese government won't like this as it could lead to famine issues all over again. I wonder how Foxconn is going to compensate for this, the socialist thinks more taxes, the conservative thinks more security.
- tluyben2 15y ago
  I was just coming here to ask this; why do robots not do this and why, if robots can do this, is this not done in the US? Robots cost a lot of money (getting cheaper, but slowly; wait for the 3d-printable robots), but it makes more sense keeping it in the US anyway?
  - Devilboy 15y ago
    There's only about a million industrial robots in operation worldwide today. For Foxconn to turn around all those iPads (for example) in only a month or two requires about million people right now. The scale of what they do is just staggering, imagine how much it would cost to go to a third party like Siemens and buy a million industrial robots with the dexterity of human hands and fingers. Well, with this new internal development project Foxconn will do it all by itself in just 2 years. This will DOUBLE the number of industrial robots in the world and make China the leading robotics country. Impressive stuff.
    - tluyben2 15y ago
      That is very impressive. I find it more impressive though that we are not farther along with this. Only 1 million? (I have no idea about this, you seem to:) Isn't it so that you don't need the human dexterity? They are making the same movements on the same iPad the entire day; would that not be a prime candidate to NOT need humans for? It's not as if they create a custom iPad per client?
      - Devilboy 15y ago
        Well the stuff that do not require human fingers have already been robiticized.
  - Joeri 15y ago
    You need a manufacturing base. Raw materials, parts, tools, it all has to be made nearby your plant to be able to automate efficiently. The US doesn't have that anymore.
    - atdt 15y ago
      [citation needed]
    - tluyben2 15y ago
      I am curious where this info comes from? I heard the gov is sponsoring robot production in the USA now; what would be needed?
ChrisNorstrom 15y ago
Hmmm... What an interesting paradox. What made manufacturing jobs go to China in the first place was the extremely low wages and lack of red tape, worker benefits, safety, bureaucracy, etc... In the past months wages in China have risen enough to make some US companies return jobs to the US because they were no longer saving money in China. This was predicted to happen at some time around 2015 but we're seeing much earlier. The better the Chinese get paid the less of a reason companies will have for outsourcing in the first place. Why? Because by insourcing manufacturing back to the US businesses have more control, don't have to worry about IP theft, and don't have to wait a month for shipments to come back from China. Basically: Chinese are treated like crap = backlash from consumers + bad for workers + but more jobs for the Chinese. Chinese workers treated better = more approval for consumers + better for Chinese workers + but less jobs for China.
- Joakal 15y ago
  It's not much of a paradox but something that capitalists said that globalisation allows a huge demand for workers in developing countries until the workers can demand developed world wages.
- latch 15y ago
  Two problems with this. First, rising wages in China isn't going to bring jobs back to the US. It'll bring jobs to India. Second, from the perspective of as casual observer, it would seem Apple's success disproves all three of your concern..they seem to have ample control, IP theft doesn't seem to be a problem (Samsung "stealing" design elements, isn't a manufacturing issue), and their time to market is phenomenal.
  - learc83 15y ago
    >It'll bring jobs to India. Unless automation catches up first. You're right that jobs will keep jumping from country to county as wages rise in previously developing areas. However, that will end when automation reaches the point where it's cheaper to have robots in the US build it. Also, one question I have is this: is the difference in wages between the U.S. and India, less than the difference in wages between the U.S. and China when these jobs started moving there?
Cor 15y ago
Foxconn have raised their wages significantly over the last decade and a half; This is hardly unexpected. This is how Foxconn's wages have looked since 2004 -- 2004: 380 RMB 2006: 400 RMB 2007: 600 RMB 2008: 700 RMB 2009-July 2010: 900 RMB July 2010: 1200 RMB Oct 2010: 2000 RMB after 6 month probationary period at 1200 RMB April 2011: 2390 RMB after 6 month probation period at 1590 RMB 2012: 2590 after 6 month probation period at 2190 RMB
- learc83 15y ago
  Wow, it looks like wages have nearly tripled in the last 3 years and looking at the numbers, inflation only accounts for a small fraction. I've been expecting cheap manufacturing to move away from China eventually, but it seems it may happen faster than I thought.
  - Cor 15y ago
    Heh, yup. It's funny how the media neglects to mention how quickly wages have risen over the past few years WITHOUT any pressure being put on the companies by the media. These pay rises were scheduled a long time ago - they were only just put into action because of Chinese New Year a few weeks back. It's going to be interesting to see what happens once the Chinese workers have to go back to their farms. The average Chinese farm earns about 300-500RMB per month (http://seeingredinchina.com/2011/04/27/how-poor-are-chinese-farmers/ http://seeingredinchina.com/2011/04/27/how-poor-are-chinese-...); will the NYTimes write about that, too?

30 points by benackles 15y ago

Volpe 15y ago

Great to see this happening! Good on foxconn for responding, and hopefully they keep improving their conditions of work.

learc83 15y ago

Foxconn also has plans to install millions of assembly robots in the next few years. All of this push to raise employee pay will more than likely speed up the adoption of automation and end up drastically cutting unskilled jobs a bit faster.

Joakal 15y ago
Already, there are huge queues for Foxconn positions even if the work conditions are abysmal. The Chinese government won't like this as it could lead to famine issues all over again. I wonder how Foxconn is going to compensate for this, the socialist thinks more taxes, the conservative thinks more security.
tluyben2 15y ago
I was just coming here to ask this; why do robots not do this and why, if robots can do this, is this not done in the US? Robots cost a lot of money (getting cheaper, but slowly; wait for the 3d-printable robots), but it makes more sense keeping it in the US anyway?
- Devilboy 15y ago
  There's only about a million industrial robots in operation worldwide today. For Foxconn to turn around all those iPads (for example) in only a month or two requires about million people right now. The scale of what they do is just staggering, imagine how much it would cost to go to a third party like Siemens and buy a million industrial robots with the dexterity of human hands and fingers. Well, with this new internal development project Foxconn will do it all by itself in just 2 years. This will DOUBLE the number of industrial robots in the world and make China the leading robotics country. Impressive stuff.
  - tluyben2 15y ago
    That is very impressive. I find it more impressive though that we are not farther along with this. Only 1 million? (I have no idea about this, you seem to:) Isn't it so that you don't need the human dexterity? They are making the same movements on the same iPad the entire day; would that not be a prime candidate to NOT need humans for? It's not as if they create a custom iPad per client?
    - Devilboy 15y ago
      Well the stuff that do not require human fingers have already been robiticized.
- Joeri 15y ago
  You need a manufacturing base. Raw materials, parts, tools, it all has to be made nearby your plant to be able to automate efficiently. The US doesn't have that anymore.
  - atdt 15y ago
    [citation needed]
  - tluyben2 15y ago
    I am curious where this info comes from? I heard the gov is sponsoring robot production in the USA now; what would be needed?

ChrisNorstrom 15y ago

Hmmm... What an interesting paradox. What made manufacturing jobs go to China in the first place was the extremely low wages and lack of red tape, worker benefits, safety, bureaucracy, etc... In the past months wages in China have risen enough to make some US companies return jobs to the US because they were no longer saving money in China. This was predicted to happen at some time around 2015 but we're seeing much earlier. The better the Chinese get paid the less of a reason companies will have for outsourcing in the first place. Why? Because by insourcing manufacturing back to the US businesses have more control, don't have to worry about IP theft, and don't have to wait a month for shipments to come back from China. Basically: Chinese are treated like crap = backlash from consumers + bad for workers + but more jobs for the Chinese. Chinese workers treated better = more approval for consumers + better for Chinese workers + but less jobs for China.

Joakal 15y ago
It's not much of a paradox but something that capitalists said that globalisation allows a huge demand for workers in developing countries until the workers can demand developed world wages.
latch 15y ago
Two problems with this. First, rising wages in China isn't going to bring jobs back to the US. It'll bring jobs to India. Second, from the perspective of as casual observer, it would seem Apple's success disproves all three of your concern..they seem to have ample control, IP theft doesn't seem to be a problem (Samsung "stealing" design elements, isn't a manufacturing issue), and their time to market is phenomenal.
- learc83 15y ago
  >It'll bring jobs to India. Unless automation catches up first. You're right that jobs will keep jumping from country to county as wages rise in previously developing areas. However, that will end when automation reaches the point where it's cheaper to have robots in the US build it. Also, one question I have is this: is the difference in wages between the U.S. and India, less than the difference in wages between the U.S. and China when these jobs started moving there?

Cor 15y ago

Foxconn have raised their wages significantly over the last decade and a half; This is hardly unexpected. This is how Foxconn's wages have looked since 2004 -- 2004: 380 RMB 2006: 400 RMB 2007: 600 RMB 2008: 700 RMB 2009-July 2010: 900 RMB July 2010: 1200 RMB Oct 2010: 2000 RMB after 6 month probationary period at 1200 RMB April 2011: 2390 RMB after 6 month probation period at 1590 RMB 2012: 2590 after 6 month probation period at 2190 RMB

learc83 15y ago
Wow, it looks like wages have nearly tripled in the last 3 years and looking at the numbers, inflation only accounts for a small fraction. I've been expecting cheap manufacturing to move away from China eventually, but it seems it may happen faster than I thought.
- Cor 15y ago
  Heh, yup. It's funny how the media neglects to mention how quickly wages have risen over the past few years WITHOUT any pressure being put on the companies by the media. These pay rises were scheduled a long time ago - they were only just put into action because of Chinese New Year a few weeks back. It's going to be interesting to see what happens once the Chinese workers have to go back to their farms. The average Chinese farm earns about 300-500RMB per month (http://seeingredinchina.com/2011/04/27/how-poor-are-chinese-farmers/ http://seeingredinchina.com/2011/04/27/how-poor-are-chinese-...); will the NYTimes write about that, too?