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There's something core to this discussion that I feel like everyone misses. Yes, kids annihilate computers. Yes, Chromebooks have an expiration date that's pret

There's something core to this discussion that I feel like everyone misses. Yes, kids annihilate computers. Yes, Chromebooks have an expiration date that's pretty arbitrary. Yes, Chromebooks generally have lower end hardware that doesn't last as long. Yes, making them last longer could mean you cycle through 8,000 Chromebooks in 4 years instead of 16,000. My question is, do we really need 1:1 programs for kids? I absolutely think it's important to have computer skills, but I think that's more of an issue of class offerings rather than available tech. I'm 30 now, so well removed from when I went to school, but the amount of schools offering comp-sci related classes is embarrassingly low. Wouldn't those classes in labs with proper equipment provide better computer skills than a Chromebook? And yeah, this is ignoring benefits that Chromebooks have like potential to a learning environment at home. I've worked in schools in various IT positions and I still just can't see the justification in having one laptop per child, especially if it's a Chromebook.

anonymouscaller 3y ago
I'm a high schooler and I can say I need a chromebook/personal device for almost every one of my classes. Everything is digital and embeded into the Google ecosystem. A good 95% of writing is done on Google Docs, slideshows are created on Google Slides, and then this work is turned in on Google Classroom. While yes, computer labs with traditional desktop PCs would be more economically feasible, they simply aren't possible for public schools (at least the one I go to) today.
- pathartl 3y ago
  The immediate rebuttal I can think of is of course you need a Chromebook; your school is now vendor locked to Google's platform. They did this by offering deep discounts to their cloud offerings. The point about writing is a good one that resonates with me. I grew up in the age where typewriters were dead, we would outline on paper, and then do drafts/final revisions in the computer lab. I can absolutely see why going straight to digital removes a lot of inefficiency... but I'm just still not convinced it couldn't be handled by shared machines. Having robust dedicated machines, even still in the form of a laptop, could be part of the classroom.
  - lacker 3y ago
    I think the big issue is whether you give all the kids a laptop or not. If you don't, some of the kids won't have a computer at home. How are they working on, say, a writing project, then? Only at school? The well-off, computer-savvy parents will buy their kids a laptop and make sure you can log into the school system so that they get the same working environment at home, whether it's Google Classroom or anything else. That paper you started in class, show it to your parents, and keep working on it at home. It seems like a huge advantage if some kids can't do that. Once you're giving all the kids a laptop, it doesn't really matter whether it's a Chromebook, it's just the cheapest way to do it, and it's good enough.
    - pathartl 3y ago
      I think that writing projects should be done in school while students have access to their educational resources, yes. This is purely my own experience so there's a huge grain of salt, but I have to believe that learning how to compose an essay should be iterative with the educator instead of being reactionary. The concept of writing a paper and handing it in for a grade only to be told you haven't met the criteria is wild to me. I can't remember any good paper I wrote that I actually wrote at home. Most of the time it was in class with the ability to ask the teacher questions.
suddenclarity 3y ago
There's been a big push to replace pen and paper with computers in school. To the extent that one school here that taught their students to write with pen first got reprimanded by the authorities and had to introduce computers earlier. Since you replace both books and pens with a computer, it kinda makes sense from that perspective that every student has their own computer. Ironically many people still seem to be poor at comp-sci. Chrome and iPhone apps teach you to swipe and push buttons, not how computers or traditional software actually works.
lacker 3y ago
From this parent's point of view, using laptops in school doesn't have much to do with computer science. My kids in elementary school use their Chromebooks for all homework. It seems very good for their computer skills. Word processing to write papers, learning to type, learning to use the mouse, using learning applications, using the internet to do research, and creating presentations. When you say "proper equipment", well, proper equipment for a professional software engineer is often just a Macbook. How does that differ from a Chromebook? Okay, they can't run Xcode on a Chromebook, but a 4th grader isn't going to be learning that anyway. The main thing for this generation is that so many of them are native touch screen users. They are used to iPads and iPhones and get very good at understanding those UIs. Which is great, but they will also need to learn how to use the keyboard+mouse+windows UI. Chromebooks seem great at that.
- pathartl 3y ago
  I agree for things like writing papers having access to a computer for research and word proccessing is a net positive, but I still believe that this is better handled by shared equipment contained within the classroom or lab. I may be a bit biased as I'm still not convinced that homework actually provides a ton of benefit, and I'm even more not convinced that homework should require a computer to be completed. However, to further your first point even more, having one laptop per student is a great way to bring computers into the home of those that might not be fortunate enough to purchase them. In the school district I worked for (very rural Wisconsin) we were able to secure hotspots for households that couldn't afford a broadband internet service. However, even though I've been out of the education sector for a number of years I haven't seen a real uptick in computing skills so I wonder how effective these devices actually are. I have nephews that entered the system about the time I started in the education sector (and actually worked in their district), but I can't confidently say their skills match or exceed the average student from the era of mid 2000's labs. Simply put without sounding like an old man, I'm questioning whether constant exposure to tech is replacing quality education about it. By "proper equipment" I mean traditional laptops/desktops that are spec'd to be shared by multiple people and have quality components, or even repairable components so we don't end up with these mountains of e-waste.

anonymouscaller 3y ago

I'm a high schooler and I can say I need a chromebook/personal device for almost every one of my classes. Everything is digital and embeded into the Google ecosystem. A good 95% of writing is done on Google Docs, slideshows are created on Google Slides, and then this work is turned in on Google Classroom. While yes, computer labs with traditional desktop PCs would be more economically feasible, they simply aren't possible for public schools (at least the one I go to) today.

pathartl 3y ago
The immediate rebuttal I can think of is of course you need a Chromebook; your school is now vendor locked to Google's platform. They did this by offering deep discounts to their cloud offerings. The point about writing is a good one that resonates with me. I grew up in the age where typewriters were dead, we would outline on paper, and then do drafts/final revisions in the computer lab. I can absolutely see why going straight to digital removes a lot of inefficiency... but I'm just still not convinced it couldn't be handled by shared machines. Having robust dedicated machines, even still in the form of a laptop, could be part of the classroom.
- lacker 3y ago
  I think the big issue is whether you give all the kids a laptop or not. If you don't, some of the kids won't have a computer at home. How are they working on, say, a writing project, then? Only at school? The well-off, computer-savvy parents will buy their kids a laptop and make sure you can log into the school system so that they get the same working environment at home, whether it's Google Classroom or anything else. That paper you started in class, show it to your parents, and keep working on it at home. It seems like a huge advantage if some kids can't do that. Once you're giving all the kids a laptop, it doesn't really matter whether it's a Chromebook, it's just the cheapest way to do it, and it's good enough.
  - pathartl 3y ago
    I think that writing projects should be done in school while students have access to their educational resources, yes. This is purely my own experience so there's a huge grain of salt, but I have to believe that learning how to compose an essay should be iterative with the educator instead of being reactionary. The concept of writing a paper and handing it in for a grade only to be told you haven't met the criteria is wild to me. I can't remember any good paper I wrote that I actually wrote at home. Most of the time it was in class with the ability to ask the teacher questions.

suddenclarity 3y ago

There's been a big push to replace pen and paper with computers in school. To the extent that one school here that taught their students to write with pen first got reprimanded by the authorities and had to introduce computers earlier. Since you replace both books and pens with a computer, it kinda makes sense from that perspective that every student has their own computer. Ironically many people still seem to be poor at comp-sci. Chrome and iPhone apps teach you to swipe and push buttons, not how computers or traditional software actually works.

lacker 3y ago

From this parent's point of view, using laptops in school doesn't have much to do with computer science. My kids in elementary school use their Chromebooks for all homework. It seems very good for their computer skills. Word processing to write papers, learning to type, learning to use the mouse, using learning applications, using the internet to do research, and creating presentations. When you say "proper equipment", well, proper equipment for a professional software engineer is often just a Macbook. How does that differ from a Chromebook? Okay, they can't run Xcode on a Chromebook, but a 4th grader isn't going to be learning that anyway. The main thing for this generation is that so many of them are native touch screen users. They are used to iPads and iPhones and get very good at understanding those UIs. Which is great, but they will also need to learn how to use the keyboard+mouse+windows UI. Chromebooks seem great at that.

pathartl 3y ago
I agree for things like writing papers having access to a computer for research and word proccessing is a net positive, but I still believe that this is better handled by shared equipment contained within the classroom or lab. I may be a bit biased as I'm still not convinced that homework actually provides a ton of benefit, and I'm even more not convinced that homework should require a computer to be completed. However, to further your first point even more, having one laptop per student is a great way to bring computers into the home of those that might not be fortunate enough to purchase them. In the school district I worked for (very rural Wisconsin) we were able to secure hotspots for households that couldn't afford a broadband internet service. However, even though I've been out of the education sector for a number of years I haven't seen a real uptick in computing skills so I wonder how effective these devices actually are. I have nephews that entered the system about the time I started in the education sector (and actually worked in their district), but I can't confidently say their skills match or exceed the average student from the era of mid 2000's labs. Simply put without sounding like an old man, I'm questioning whether constant exposure to tech is replacing quality education about it. By "proper equipment" I mean traditional laptops/desktops that are spec'd to be shared by multiple people and have quality components, or even repairable components so we don't end up with these mountains of e-waste.