4 ms·

Similarly, there is now extemely strong evidence that the Epstein-Barr is causal in multiple sclerosis. The vast majority of people are infected with EB, with m

by mjhay 3y ago

Similarly, there is now extemely strong evidence that the Epstein-Barr is causal in multiple sclerosis. The vast majority of people are infected with EB, with most never having symptoms. However, a nonsignificant minority aren't. A large-scale study of data covering 10 million US military service people found that those infected with EB were 32 times more likely to develop MS.

xattt 3y ago
EB vs non-EB history also seems to imply distinct but similar conditions.
pitaj 3y ago
For anyone else reading, EBV is the virus behind mononucleosis.
- make3 3y ago
  ahhhh I'm in danger.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    We all are.
    - moffkalast 3y ago
      exists nervously
killjoywashere 3y ago
The paper mjhay refers to: https://doi.org/10.1126/science.abj8222 https://doi.org/10.1126/science.abj8222
SeanLuke 3y ago
Epstein-Barr has long been thought to be a culprit in everything from MS to dementia to especially CFS. But that's a real problem: there are no antivirals developed that are particularly effective against it. EBV research has been a backwater in medicine.
- jkingsman 3y ago
  > EBV research has been a backwater in medicine Truth. I moderate a forum for people suffering from Mononucleosis and the overwhelming feeling is abandonment and fear. Granted there's some inverse survivorship bias -- people who feel well supported and educated by the medical system usually don't post in support groups -- but it's so hard seeing so many people suffering for so long (SO LONG -- years of fatigue and malaise, in many cases) for something that has basically no first-line therapy.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    With most of these patients living decades after diagnosis, you would imagine that a reasonable chunk of them would give the rest of their life to researching a cure for their disease. Yet, while it seems common to do charity awareness fundraisers at marathons, it does not seem common for people to go learn biochemistry and work on solving the problem directly. Compare that to tech, where a huge chunk of the people here have probably written a computer program to solve some itch of theirs. Saying "I'm doing a charity fundraiser to fix the print preview bug in libreoffice" would be crazy. I wonder if perhaps these people all have so little useful productivity left that it isn't even worth starting to learn biochemistry?
    - macintux 3y ago
      Abandoning one’s livelihood to spend years in poverty studying advanced science at university in the distant hope that in a few decades you might contribute to a cure is a little different from taking a few weekends, or even a few months of weekends, to scratch a programming itch.
      - odyssey7 3y ago
        Indeed, the path to a research career — necessary for the grants and facilities you’ll need to test your hypotheses — involves such high barriers that you would almost need to already be on that path by your freshman year in undergrad.
Llamamoe 3y ago
EBV reactivation also plays a major role in ME/CFS, a condition that can affect people almost as severely as MS, but at any age. HHV-6 and 7 infections have also been implicated.
whimsicalism 3y ago
The evidence implicating EBV in MS is not nearly as strong as this causal evidence.
- dtech 3y ago
  It's incredibly strong evidence that it's a required but not sufficient condition. I've seen professionals have serious suspicions that the single EBV-negative MS case from the study [1] OP mentioned was a false negative, but apparently it's not easy to confirm. A single EBV-negative MS case. While there were 955 MS cases that developed in the 0.5M that were EBV-negative at the start of military service. You'd expect there to be about 50. That's pretty compelling evidence. [1] https://www.usmedicine.com/clinical-topics/multiple-sclerosis/ground-breaking-study-in-u-s-military-finds-link-between-ms-epstein-barr-virus/ https://www.usmedicine.com/clinical-topics/multiple-sclerosi...
piloto_ciego 3y ago
Can confirm, I have MS and I got EBV about a decade before MS took me down…. It’s crazy what a tiny little virus can do.

by mjhay 3y ago

xattt 3y ago

EB vs non-EB history also seems to imply distinct but similar conditions.

pitaj 3y ago

For anyone else reading, EBV is the virus behind mononucleosis.

make3 3y ago
ahhhh I'm in danger.
- hinkley 3y ago
  We all are.
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    exists nervously

killjoywashere 3y ago

The paper mjhay refers to: https://doi.org/10.1126/science.abj8222 https://doi.org/10.1126/science.abj8222

SeanLuke 3y ago

Epstein-Barr has long been thought to be a culprit in everything from MS to dementia to especially CFS. But that's a real problem: there are no antivirals developed that are particularly effective against it. EBV research has been a backwater in medicine.

jkingsman 3y ago
> EBV research has been a backwater in medicine Truth. I moderate a forum for people suffering from Mononucleosis and the overwhelming feeling is abandonment and fear. Granted there's some inverse survivorship bias -- people who feel well supported and educated by the medical system usually don't post in support groups -- but it's so hard seeing so many people suffering for so long (SO LONG -- years of fatigue and malaise, in many cases) for something that has basically no first-line therapy.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  With most of these patients living decades after diagnosis, you would imagine that a reasonable chunk of them would give the rest of their life to researching a cure for their disease. Yet, while it seems common to do charity awareness fundraisers at marathons, it does not seem common for people to go learn biochemistry and work on solving the problem directly. Compare that to tech, where a huge chunk of the people here have probably written a computer program to solve some itch of theirs. Saying "I'm doing a charity fundraiser to fix the print preview bug in libreoffice" would be crazy. I wonder if perhaps these people all have so little useful productivity left that it isn't even worth starting to learn biochemistry?
  - macintux 3y ago
    Abandoning one’s livelihood to spend years in poverty studying advanced science at university in the distant hope that in a few decades you might contribute to a cure is a little different from taking a few weekends, or even a few months of weekends, to scratch a programming itch.
    - odyssey7 3y ago
      Indeed, the path to a research career — necessary for the grants and facilities you’ll need to test your hypotheses — involves such high barriers that you would almost need to already be on that path by your freshman year in undergrad.

Llamamoe 3y ago

EBV reactivation also plays a major role in ME/CFS, a condition that can affect people almost as severely as MS, but at any age. HHV-6 and 7 infections have also been implicated.

whimsicalism 3y ago

The evidence implicating EBV in MS is not nearly as strong as this causal evidence.

dtech 3y ago
It's incredibly strong evidence that it's a required but not sufficient condition. I've seen professionals have serious suspicions that the single EBV-negative MS case from the study [1] OP mentioned was a false negative, but apparently it's not easy to confirm. A single EBV-negative MS case. While there were 955 MS cases that developed in the 0.5M that were EBV-negative at the start of military service. You'd expect there to be about 50. That's pretty compelling evidence. [1] https://www.usmedicine.com/clinical-topics/multiple-sclerosis/ground-breaking-study-in-u-s-military-finds-link-between-ms-epstein-barr-virus/ https://www.usmedicine.com/clinical-topics/multiple-sclerosi...

piloto_ciego 3y ago

Can confirm, I have MS and I got EBV about a decade before MS took me down…. It’s crazy what a tiny little virus can do.