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That's exactly why you'd buy a SAAB. And it's exactly what you'd want if you bought SAAB. The problem was that GM bought and murdered SAAB. They thought the bra

That's exactly why you'd buy a SAAB. And it's exactly what you'd want if you bought SAAB. The problem was that GM bought and murdered SAAB. They thought the brand itself, without the expensively engineered cars carried value. Evident by then strapping the SAAB brand to a few really lousy cars (A Subaru? Some hideuous SUV thing with zero SAAB to them other than the badge).

rjdagost 3y ago
SAAB was financially failing when GM bought them. It's tough to blame GM for trying to impose financial discipline on a money-bleeding operation.
- toss1 3y ago
  Imposing financial discipline is one thing. Mistaking ephemeral "brand value" for engineering prowess and reputation (typical of marketing-oriented mgmt), as cited above, is quite another. Being required to optimize for another real-world constraint (i.e., cost in this case) is more work, but ultimately just another task for an engineer. Being required to not engineer greatest-practical-stuff, but just slap the name on some junk is not the same thing, but marketing people can't see that, even though customers can. I'm concerned about the Chinese ownership, but that seems murky now, since NEVS bought a stake or strategic partnership, then got bought 51% by Chinese real estate conglomerate Evergrande, which is deeply in debt, and NEVS is now in "permanent hibernation mode", essentially liquidating. I wonder if there's opportunity to get it back in control of democratic nations. Anyone have deeper information? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEVS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEVS
- prepend 3y ago
  Saab had been nationally subsidized for a while and I think expected to receive support that didn’t work out. It was strange how all projections showed failure but they continued on. Not sure why Sweden decided to make them go independent, but if GM hadn’t bought them, they would have died sooner
_yb2s 3y ago
The people running and working at GM have no “taste” or appreciation for quality. They are unable to see or care how bad their products are, or how much better the competition is, and they also market exclusively to customers with the same issue. If they could see the huge flaws in their products and understand why SAAB would build their own, they could make their own vehicles decent in the first place. Driving a modern GM vehicle and being aware of these things is infuriating. They are really quite awful- aesthetically, sonically, performance wise, etc.
- jerrysievert 3y ago
  and soon to be the mobile information gathering platform that google has always dreamt about. while removing the niceties of car play.
- cramjabsyn 3y ago
  Some years ago I had a Malibu as a rental. The thing had all this chrome on the dashboard that reflected the sun right into your eyes as you drove. How on earth did anyone approve a car interior design that constantly blinds you?
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    Ha, my Fiat Panda can top that. The gauges in the instrument clusters for speed and rpm, have concave shaped plexiglass windows on them[1], so when the light hits them at just the right angle, they turn into a parabolic mirror and focus the sun in single spot burning a hole into your eyes. How the fuck did anyone think that putting parabolic mirrors facing the driver was a good idea? Shit like this should be illegal and worthy of a recall. [1] https://prod.pictures.autoscout24.net/listing-images/3fbd33cb-d051-4593-94bc-4dca41d48887_bc78e8a1-2d19-4508-9b37-cc5718a93cf8.jpg/1280x960.webp https://prod.pictures.autoscout24.net/listing-images/3fbd33c...
    - lostlogin 3y ago
      Every car I’ve ever owned has solved this. I’m taller than average. With the steering wheel at maximum height, the instrument cluster is blocked by the wheel. An interesting part of this is that if the bottom 75% of the windscreen was painted out, it wouldn’t change the visibility I have. Cars seem to be designed for a very short average human.
92xer 3y ago
> SAAB brand to a few really lousy cars (A Subaru? What?! The 9-2x Aero was dope!
- prepend 3y ago
  It was actually cheaper than the wrx for a while so it ended up being a savings if you bought the 9-2x aero vs the proper Subaru.
bwanab 3y ago
Exactly. I've still got my 2004 93 (the last of the Saab Saabs). It has been a fabulous car.
- teh_klev 3y ago
  That's a GM platform car: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM2900_platform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM2900_platform GM already had 50% controlling share of Saab way back in 1989 and by 2010 they were wholely owned by GM. I had a 1998 Saab 93 (2L petrol LPT) and was initially disappointed to find out it used the same platform as the Vauxhall/Opel Vectra. That said it still had those distinct Saab design touches and was pretty damned good in the snow and ice. Even the 900NG which the 9-3 derives from was a GM2900 platform car.
  - linksnapzz 3y ago
    If you had one with the B204/B234 motor, and not the V6, then it still has a Saab engine.
    - teh_klev 3y ago
      Sure, but it's the whole package that matters.
    - a4000 3y ago
      Which was actually a Triumph engine, although extensively revised by Saab by that stage.
      - linksnapzz 3y ago
        If Theseus’s Ship had an engine, it’d be the Saab B2x…:-)

rjdagost 3y ago

SAAB was financially failing when GM bought them. It's tough to blame GM for trying to impose financial discipline on a money-bleeding operation.

toss1 3y ago
Imposing financial discipline is one thing. Mistaking ephemeral "brand value" for engineering prowess and reputation (typical of marketing-oriented mgmt), as cited above, is quite another. Being required to optimize for another real-world constraint (i.e., cost in this case) is more work, but ultimately just another task for an engineer. Being required to not engineer greatest-practical-stuff, but just slap the name on some junk is not the same thing, but marketing people can't see that, even though customers can. I'm concerned about the Chinese ownership, but that seems murky now, since NEVS bought a stake or strategic partnership, then got bought 51% by Chinese real estate conglomerate Evergrande, which is deeply in debt, and NEVS is now in "permanent hibernation mode", essentially liquidating. I wonder if there's opportunity to get it back in control of democratic nations. Anyone have deeper information? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEVS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEVS
prepend 3y ago
Saab had been nationally subsidized for a while and I think expected to receive support that didn’t work out. It was strange how all projections showed failure but they continued on. Not sure why Sweden decided to make them go independent, but if GM hadn’t bought them, they would have died sooner

_yb2s 3y ago

The people running and working at GM have no “taste” or appreciation for quality. They are unable to see or care how bad their products are, or how much better the competition is, and they also market exclusively to customers with the same issue. If they could see the huge flaws in their products and understand why SAAB would build their own, they could make their own vehicles decent in the first place. Driving a modern GM vehicle and being aware of these things is infuriating. They are really quite awful- aesthetically, sonically, performance wise, etc.

jerrysievert 3y ago
and soon to be the mobile information gathering platform that google has always dreamt about. while removing the niceties of car play.
cramjabsyn 3y ago
Some years ago I had a Malibu as a rental. The thing had all this chrome on the dashboard that reflected the sun right into your eyes as you drove. How on earth did anyone approve a car interior design that constantly blinds you?
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  Ha, my Fiat Panda can top that. The gauges in the instrument clusters for speed and rpm, have concave shaped plexiglass windows on them[1], so when the light hits them at just the right angle, they turn into a parabolic mirror and focus the sun in single spot burning a hole into your eyes. How the fuck did anyone think that putting parabolic mirrors facing the driver was a good idea? Shit like this should be illegal and worthy of a recall. [1] https://prod.pictures.autoscout24.net/listing-images/3fbd33cb-d051-4593-94bc-4dca41d48887_bc78e8a1-2d19-4508-9b37-cc5718a93cf8.jpg/1280x960.webp https://prod.pictures.autoscout24.net/listing-images/3fbd33c...
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    Every car I’ve ever owned has solved this. I’m taller than average. With the steering wheel at maximum height, the instrument cluster is blocked by the wheel. An interesting part of this is that if the bottom 75% of the windscreen was painted out, it wouldn’t change the visibility I have. Cars seem to be designed for a very short average human.

92xer 3y ago

> SAAB brand to a few really lousy cars (A Subaru? What?! The 9-2x Aero was dope!

prepend 3y ago
It was actually cheaper than the wrx for a while so it ended up being a savings if you bought the 9-2x aero vs the proper Subaru.

bwanab 3y ago

Exactly. I've still got my 2004 93 (the last of the Saab Saabs). It has been a fabulous car.

teh_klev 3y ago
That's a GM platform car: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM2900_platform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM2900_platform GM already had 50% controlling share of Saab way back in 1989 and by 2010 they were wholely owned by GM. I had a 1998 Saab 93 (2L petrol LPT) and was initially disappointed to find out it used the same platform as the Vauxhall/Opel Vectra. That said it still had those distinct Saab design touches and was pretty damned good in the snow and ice. Even the 900NG which the 9-3 derives from was a GM2900 platform car.
- linksnapzz 3y ago
  If you had one with the B204/B234 motor, and not the V6, then it still has a Saab engine.
  - teh_klev 3y ago
    Sure, but it's the whole package that matters.
  - a4000 3y ago
    Which was actually a Triumph engine, although extensively revised by Saab by that stage.
    - linksnapzz 3y ago
      If Theseus’s Ship had an engine, it’d be the Saab B2x…:-)