4 ms·

Humans usually, unless incredible entitled, feel obligated to work for the person with enough humility to tip them first instead of leaving them wondering if th

Humans usually, unless incredible entitled, feel obligated to work for the person with enough humility to tip them first instead of leaving them wondering if their hard work will even pay off. I don’t want to abuse them by making them spend time in the latter camp.

lockhouse 3y ago
Many humans are incredibly entitled. Just the fact that people have come to expect a tip for doing their basic job is an entitled attitude. It’s not abusing a service worker by not paying them extra money for doing their literal job with bare minimal effort.
- haswell 3y ago
  > Just the fact that people have come to expect a tip for doing their basic job is an entitled attitude. I understand the point you’re trying to make here, but it’s not this simple in the US. From the department of labor [0]: > An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage It is both true that the service worker depends on those tips because base pay is allowed to be unreasonably low and it is unreasonable to expect a good tip for poor service. Given the structure of the system as it currently exists, I’d argue it approaches a moral obligation either to factor tipping into your plans if those plans involve service workers or to intentionally avoid establishments that force workers to depend on tips. For me, this means: doing the bare minimum gets you a middle of the road tip. I’ll tip well for going above and beyond, and only tip poorly if the service was truly terrible. And if a place has a no tipping policy, I’ll give them my business over others. While I’ve encountered workers who had unreasonable expectations, that’s pretty rare. The true “entitlement” here comes from establishments that continue to force their workers to depend on tips. Another form of entitlement would be eating at such establishments while refusing to tip. - [0] https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips
  - lockhouse 3y ago
    I’m not understanding the point you’re trying to make here. An employee will receive minimum wage from their employer if they don’t receive enough tips to exceed it. This is required by law.
    - haswell 3y ago
      The point is that not tipping is implicitly endorsing minimum wage as acceptable for the role, since the only possible way for these employees to make a living is through tips. The fact that the employer is required to pick up the slack is of little consolation, and certainly not a reason to assume that not tipping is ok. This rule would be more meaningful if minimum wage was a meaningful number. Put more simply: until there are broader changes to tipping culture, it is perfectly understandable that people expect a tip. That is not to say that entitlement doesn’t exist, and I’ve had a server or two get upset for a middling tip after mediocre service. But it would be similarly entitled to assume that the minimum wage fallback somehow makes not tipping acceptable. (None of this should be construed as an endorsement of tipping culture).

lockhouse 3y ago

Many humans are incredibly entitled. Just the fact that people have come to expect a tip for doing their basic job is an entitled attitude. It’s not abusing a service worker by not paying them extra money for doing their literal job with bare minimal effort.

haswell 3y ago
> Just the fact that people have come to expect a tip for doing their basic job is an entitled attitude. I understand the point you’re trying to make here, but it’s not this simple in the US. From the department of labor [0]: > An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage It is both true that the service worker depends on those tips because base pay is allowed to be unreasonably low and it is unreasonable to expect a good tip for poor service. Given the structure of the system as it currently exists, I’d argue it approaches a moral obligation either to factor tipping into your plans if those plans involve service workers or to intentionally avoid establishments that force workers to depend on tips. For me, this means: doing the bare minimum gets you a middle of the road tip. I’ll tip well for going above and beyond, and only tip poorly if the service was truly terrible. And if a place has a no tipping policy, I’ll give them my business over others. While I’ve encountered workers who had unreasonable expectations, that’s pretty rare. The true “entitlement” here comes from establishments that continue to force their workers to depend on tips. Another form of entitlement would be eating at such establishments while refusing to tip. - [0] https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips
- lockhouse 3y ago
  I’m not understanding the point you’re trying to make here. An employee will receive minimum wage from their employer if they don’t receive enough tips to exceed it. This is required by law.
  - haswell 3y ago
    The point is that not tipping is implicitly endorsing minimum wage as acceptable for the role, since the only possible way for these employees to make a living is through tips. The fact that the employer is required to pick up the slack is of little consolation, and certainly not a reason to assume that not tipping is ok. This rule would be more meaningful if minimum wage was a meaningful number. Put more simply: until there are broader changes to tipping culture, it is perfectly understandable that people expect a tip. That is not to say that entitlement doesn’t exist, and I’ve had a server or two get upset for a middling tip after mediocre service. But it would be similarly entitled to assume that the minimum wage fallback somehow makes not tipping acceptable. (None of this should be construed as an endorsement of tipping culture).