5 ms·

Colorado districts built up a supply of Chromebooks. Some are nearing their end

20 points by lalunamel 3y ago

lalunamel 3y ago
Chromebooks reach their “death date” when they are no longer capable of receiving operating system updates. Replacing them straps district budgets and harms the environment.
mikece 3y ago
Given the meager hardware requirements for ChromeOS why would any hardware devices need to be cut off from updates at all?
- natch 3y ago
  Google…
horeszko 3y ago
Install linux
- mattl 3y ago
  Does ChromiumOS exist in the same way Chromium does? Can these devices switch to community support?
- tech_ken 3y ago
  (Tragically) Colorado's school districts definitely do not have the manpower, funding, or will to handle linux tech support for a bunch of teenagers. They can barely stay open 5 days a week
rahimnathwani 3y ago
The end-of-life problem seems like it could be solved, depending on the specific model. Many Chromebooks can have coreboot installed (https://mrchromebox.tech/ https://mrchromebox.tech/), turning them into regular PCs. And since Google bought Neverware, a regular PC can be turned into a Chromebook by installing ChromeOS Flex.
- techniquetech 3y ago
  .... or linux machines. Have an old Chromebook with Gallium OS installed on it and it's a fantastic little machine!
  - rahimnathwani 3y ago
    GalliumOS is great but sadly it's no longer maintained. I think you can get most of the same benefits with a vanilla distro, but you have to be willing to do the tweaking yourself. I installed Arch on a CB3-111 last week, and it seems to work fine. I will probably make it swap to zram, and see if I can install a better touchpad driver, but the other limitations aren't things I can fix, most importantly: - only 4GB RAM - no meta (windows) key, so I'm using alt as the meta key for i3 - function keys are labelled as media keys, so I have to remember which one is F1 But neither GalliumOS nor Arch are a practical solutions for schools today, unless there's an easy way to lock them down and have central management?
rahimnathwani 3y ago
This sounds weird: "DPS sends its outdated Chromebooks to an electronics recycling vendor" Why would the recycler be a 'vendor'? Is the district sending them laptops and paying them? I'd have thought competition would mean the winning bid would be offering to pay the district something (even if only $20 per device) rather than requiring payment.
- opwieurposiu 3y ago
  Colorado's local governments have a surprising amount of corruption just underneath the surface. Kickback schemes are common.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Commercial quantity electronics recycling has a cost component because it would not be economical otherwise to process the waste stream. This is not uncommon at all, to have a vendor you pay to recycle your e-waste. This is not the same business as recycling scrap steel, aluminum, or other materials. https://info.mayeralloys.com/ewaste-blog/why-is-there-a-recycling-fee-for-electronics https://info.mayeralloys.com/ewaste-blog/why-is-there-a-recy...
  - rahimnathwani 3y ago
    I understand the idea in principle: there are potential costs for data protection and environmental safety. But in this particular case: 1. The laptops are being disposed of not because they have physical faults, but because their software is out of date. So there are no toxic materials to be disposed of. 2. These laptops were used by children, for school work. They don't contain state or commercial secrets, so the hard drives don't need to be shredded. 3. Even if there are secrets on the laptops, it's sufficient to do a single-pass erase before install ChromeOS Flex. I'm really curious: if someone were to give you 1000 4-year-old Chromebooks, of which 200 had physical faults and the remainder had only software issues, how much you would spend (on labor for re-imaging and physical cleaning, and on processing waste materials) vs. how much you'd recover by selling the laptops on ebay.
    - 3y ago
ushtaritk421 3y ago
This seems like very poor planning.
pathartl 3y ago
There's something core to this discussion that I feel like everyone misses. Yes, kids annihilate computers. Yes, Chromebooks have an expiration date that's pretty arbitrary. Yes, Chromebooks generally have lower end hardware that doesn't last as long. Yes, making them last longer could mean you cycle through 8,000 Chromebooks in 4 years instead of 16,000. My question is, do we really need 1:1 programs for kids? I absolutely think it's important to have computer skills, but I think that's more of an issue of class offerings rather than available tech. I'm 30 now, so well removed from when I went to school, but the amount of schools offering comp-sci related classes is embarrassingly low. Wouldn't those classes in labs with proper equipment provide better computer skills than a Chromebook? And yeah, this is ignoring benefits that Chromebooks have like potential to a learning environment at home. I've worked in schools in various IT positions and I still just can't see the justification in having one laptop per child, especially if it's a Chromebook.
- anonymouscaller 3y ago
  I'm a high schooler and I can say I need a chromebook/personal device for almost every one of my classes. Everything is digital and embeded into the Google ecosystem. A good 95% of writing is done on Google Docs, slideshows are created on Google Slides, and then this work is turned in on Google Classroom. While yes, computer labs with traditional desktop PCs would be more economically feasible, they simply aren't possible for public schools (at least the one I go to) today.
  - pathartl 3y ago
    The immediate rebuttal I can think of is of course you need a Chromebook; your school is now vendor locked to Google's platform. They did this by offering deep discounts to their cloud offerings. The point about writing is a good one that resonates with me. I grew up in the age where typewriters were dead, we would outline on paper, and then do drafts/final revisions in the computer lab. I can absolutely see why going straight to digital removes a lot of inefficiency... but I'm just still not convinced it couldn't be handled by shared machines. Having robust dedicated machines, even still in the form of a laptop, could be part of the classroom.
aaron695 3y ago
[dead]
olliej 3y ago
Wait, the computer has a built in date where it stops updating? It's not a matter of Google dropping support, it's literally the laptop pulling an HP and saying you have to buy a new one despite it being in perfect working order?

20 points by lalunamel 3y ago

Chromebooks reach their “death date” when they are no longer capable of receiving operating system updates. Replacing them straps district budgets and harms the environment.

mikece 3y ago

Given the meager hardware requirements for ChromeOS why would any hardware devices need to be cut off from updates at all?

natch 3y ago
Google…

horeszko 3y ago

Install linux

mattl 3y ago
Does ChromiumOS exist in the same way Chromium does? Can these devices switch to community support?
tech_ken 3y ago
(Tragically) Colorado's school districts definitely do not have the manpower, funding, or will to handle linux tech support for a bunch of teenagers. They can barely stay open 5 days a week

rahimnathwani 3y ago

The end-of-life problem seems like it could be solved, depending on the specific model. Many Chromebooks can have coreboot installed (https://mrchromebox.tech/ https://mrchromebox.tech/), turning them into regular PCs. And since Google bought Neverware, a regular PC can be turned into a Chromebook by installing ChromeOS Flex.

techniquetech 3y ago
.... or linux machines. Have an old Chromebook with Gallium OS installed on it and it's a fantastic little machine!
- rahimnathwani 3y ago
  GalliumOS is great but sadly it's no longer maintained. I think you can get most of the same benefits with a vanilla distro, but you have to be willing to do the tweaking yourself. I installed Arch on a CB3-111 last week, and it seems to work fine. I will probably make it swap to zram, and see if I can install a better touchpad driver, but the other limitations aren't things I can fix, most importantly: - only 4GB RAM - no meta (windows) key, so I'm using alt as the meta key for i3 - function keys are labelled as media keys, so I have to remember which one is F1 But neither GalliumOS nor Arch are a practical solutions for schools today, unless there's an easy way to lock them down and have central management?

rahimnathwani 3y ago

This sounds weird: "DPS sends its outdated Chromebooks to an electronics recycling vendor" Why would the recycler be a 'vendor'? Is the district sending them laptops and paying them? I'd have thought competition would mean the winning bid would be offering to pay the district something (even if only $20 per device) rather than requiring payment.

opwieurposiu 3y ago
Colorado's local governments have a surprising amount of corruption just underneath the surface. Kickback schemes are common.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
Commercial quantity electronics recycling has a cost component because it would not be economical otherwise to process the waste stream. This is not uncommon at all, to have a vendor you pay to recycle your e-waste. This is not the same business as recycling scrap steel, aluminum, or other materials. https://info.mayeralloys.com/ewaste-blog/why-is-there-a-recycling-fee-for-electronics https://info.mayeralloys.com/ewaste-blog/why-is-there-a-recy...
- rahimnathwani 3y ago
  I understand the idea in principle: there are potential costs for data protection and environmental safety. But in this particular case: 1. The laptops are being disposed of not because they have physical faults, but because their software is out of date. So there are no toxic materials to be disposed of. 2. These laptops were used by children, for school work. They don't contain state or commercial secrets, so the hard drives don't need to be shredded. 3. Even if there are secrets on the laptops, it's sufficient to do a single-pass erase before install ChromeOS Flex. I'm really curious: if someone were to give you 1000 4-year-old Chromebooks, of which 200 had physical faults and the remainder had only software issues, how much you would spend (on labor for re-imaging and physical cleaning, and on processing waste materials) vs. how much you'd recover by selling the laptops on ebay.
  - 3y ago

ushtaritk421 3y ago

This seems like very poor planning.

pathartl 3y ago

There's something core to this discussion that I feel like everyone misses. Yes, kids annihilate computers. Yes, Chromebooks have an expiration date that's pretty arbitrary. Yes, Chromebooks generally have lower end hardware that doesn't last as long. Yes, making them last longer could mean you cycle through 8,000 Chromebooks in 4 years instead of 16,000. My question is, do we really need 1:1 programs for kids? I absolutely think it's important to have computer skills, but I think that's more of an issue of class offerings rather than available tech. I'm 30 now, so well removed from when I went to school, but the amount of schools offering comp-sci related classes is embarrassingly low. Wouldn't those classes in labs with proper equipment provide better computer skills than a Chromebook? And yeah, this is ignoring benefits that Chromebooks have like potential to a learning environment at home. I've worked in schools in various IT positions and I still just can't see the justification in having one laptop per child, especially if it's a Chromebook.

anonymouscaller 3y ago
I'm a high schooler and I can say I need a chromebook/personal device for almost every one of my classes. Everything is digital and embeded into the Google ecosystem. A good 95% of writing is done on Google Docs, slideshows are created on Google Slides, and then this work is turned in on Google Classroom. While yes, computer labs with traditional desktop PCs would be more economically feasible, they simply aren't possible for public schools (at least the one I go to) today.
- pathartl 3y ago
  The immediate rebuttal I can think of is of course you need a Chromebook; your school is now vendor locked to Google's platform. They did this by offering deep discounts to their cloud offerings. The point about writing is a good one that resonates with me. I grew up in the age where typewriters were dead, we would outline on paper, and then do drafts/final revisions in the computer lab. I can absolutely see why going straight to digital removes a lot of inefficiency... but I'm just still not convinced it couldn't be handled by shared machines. Having robust dedicated machines, even still in the form of a laptop, could be part of the classroom.

aaron695 3y ago

[dead]

olliej 3y ago

Wait, the computer has a built in date where it stops updating? It's not a matter of Google dropping support, it's literally the laptop pulling an HP and saying you have to buy a new one despite it being in perfect working order?