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Although I agree with the observation that certain state institutions are misusing the GDPR to violate FOI laws, the rest of this rant is pure anti-GDPR propaga

Although I agree with the observation that certain state institutions are misusing the GDPR to violate FOI laws, the rest of this rant is pure anti-GDPR propaganda. If you actually care about media freedom, you already know that your comment is entirely false. Concentration of media ownership, state censorship, media independence, harassment of and violence against journalists, declining media pluralism, state surveillance and abuse of national security laws, etc., not the GDPR, are real threats. https://rsf.org/sites/default/files/medias/file/2022/04/RSF_Index_Questionnaire_2022_EN.pdf https://rsf.org/sites/default/files/medias/file/2022/04/RSF_...

carlosjobim 3y ago
There is nothing false in my comment, these abuses of GDPR law happen. You can choose what you want to believe if you want to be ignorant. "If you actually care about media freedom..." - What kind of comment is that? I just made a case for transparency - and this is your reaction? You are free to make a sustainable post here about the issues you are bringing up. "State censorship" - yes, that is what I was describing. Abuse of GDPR laws is the largest threat in the EU right now. I should have been clear that I meant in the EU. Violence against journalism is always the most serious threat, but it is not the largest threat, since it is rare.
- jruohonen 3y ago
  > Abuse of GDPR laws is the largest threat in the EU right now. While abuse of the GDPR by public authorities does happen, this statement is still not true. What they are mostly abusing is related to alleged security issues and over-interpretation of the laws governing confidentiality of information. In fact, the GDPR has substantially improved mishandling of citizens' data by public authorities, although there is still much to improve.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    > In fact, the GDPR has substantially improved mishandling of citizens' data by public authorities, although there is still much to improve. And that has zero to do with my comment, which was not about wether GDPR is good or bad as a thing, but how these laws are being abused by governments in order to hide public information. If this abuse is allowed to continue and expand, it is on the course to become the biggest freedom of press problem in the EU, unless something else comes up. Thereby the largest threat.
    - jruohonen 3y ago
      > but how these laws are being abused by governments in order to hide public information. Now you are on the right track; you should just specify to which "these laws" refer to. As I said, the GDPR is hardly the main culprit; it governs personal data, which is usually of little value beyond gossip magazines and crime "journalism". The real abuses of FOI are elsewhere.
      - carlosjobim 3y ago
        So, as I wrote earlier, when people in government wants to hide certain information they will call on these data protection authorities, who will interpret GDPR to mean that any name of a person within a document is personal data. Which it of course isn't. A real life example for you: A list of people and organisations who have received public funds within a certain government program. On that list are politicians and people in government don't want this information to get out. The data protection authority comes in handy and intervenes in the FOI request by claiming that the list has personal data since it has names of people. These are the people who are supposed to know GDPR law in and out, after all it's their job. So they should know that a name in itself is not personal data, but instead blatantly abuse their power. > The real abuses of FOI are elsewhere. Speak out then about these abuses, why not make a sustainable contribution to this discussion?
        jruohonen 3y ago
        "A list of people and organisations who have received public funds within a certain government program. On that list are politicians and people in government doesn't want this information to get out. The data protection authority comes in handy and intervenes in the FOI request by claiming that the list has personal data since it has names of people. These are the people who are supposed to know GDPR law in and out, after all it's their job. So they should know that a name in itself is not personal data, but instead blatantly abuse their power." While I agree that this kind of interpretation of the GDPR is clear abuse and should be brought to a court, I doubt whether DPAs are involved; it is more like poorly educated civil servants are incorrectly interpreting a law on their own. "Speak out then about these abuses, why not make a sustainable contribution to this discussion?" As I said, most of the abuses related to FOI trace to incorrect and zealous interpretation of confidentiality, including commercial confidentiality and secrecy on the grounds of security. It is difficult to discuss these issues at a general level since there has not been harmonization in the EU on this area. But I can give you one example: here in Finland national security is nowadays pretty much a hush-hush topic since they convicted a couple of journalists for revealing alleged "national secrets" that were not really "secrets" for anyone following cyber security. It dropped Finland's ranking: https://yle.fi/a/74-20030007 https://yle.fi/a/74-20030007 Here various state agencies also abuse local FOI law(s) with vague confidentiality claims that have little to do with the GDPR. See for instance: https://archiverosaefp.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IVJADPO20131003PH.pdf https://archiverosaefp.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IVJADP...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- Dah00n 3y ago
  >You can choose what you want to believe if you want to be ignorant. Then stand up and name a company and I'll find a user of their service and get them to make a GDPR request. If there's any truth to it I'll add it to HN.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    You seem to have completely misinterpreted my comment, please read it again.

carlosjobim 3y ago

There is nothing false in my comment, these abuses of GDPR law happen. You can choose what you want to believe if you want to be ignorant. "If you actually care about media freedom..." - What kind of comment is that? I just made a case for transparency - and this is your reaction? You are free to make a sustainable post here about the issues you are bringing up. "State censorship" - yes, that is what I was describing. Abuse of GDPR laws is the largest threat in the EU right now. I should have been clear that I meant in the EU. Violence against journalism is always the most serious threat, but it is not the largest threat, since it is rare.

jruohonen 3y ago
> Abuse of GDPR laws is the largest threat in the EU right now. While abuse of the GDPR by public authorities does happen, this statement is still not true. What they are mostly abusing is related to alleged security issues and over-interpretation of the laws governing confidentiality of information. In fact, the GDPR has substantially improved mishandling of citizens' data by public authorities, although there is still much to improve.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  > In fact, the GDPR has substantially improved mishandling of citizens' data by public authorities, although there is still much to improve. And that has zero to do with my comment, which was not about wether GDPR is good or bad as a thing, but how these laws are being abused by governments in order to hide public information. If this abuse is allowed to continue and expand, it is on the course to become the biggest freedom of press problem in the EU, unless something else comes up. Thereby the largest threat.
  - jruohonen 3y ago
    > but how these laws are being abused by governments in order to hide public information. Now you are on the right track; you should just specify to which "these laws" refer to. As I said, the GDPR is hardly the main culprit; it governs personal data, which is usually of little value beyond gossip magazines and crime "journalism". The real abuses of FOI are elsewhere.
    - carlosjobim 3y ago
      So, as I wrote earlier, when people in government wants to hide certain information they will call on these data protection authorities, who will interpret GDPR to mean that any name of a person within a document is personal data. Which it of course isn't. A real life example for you: A list of people and organisations who have received public funds within a certain government program. On that list are politicians and people in government don't want this information to get out. The data protection authority comes in handy and intervenes in the FOI request by claiming that the list has personal data since it has names of people. These are the people who are supposed to know GDPR law in and out, after all it's their job. So they should know that a name in itself is not personal data, but instead blatantly abuse their power. > The real abuses of FOI are elsewhere. Speak out then about these abuses, why not make a sustainable contribution to this discussion?
      - jruohonen 3y ago
        "A list of people and organisations who have received public funds within a certain government program. On that list are politicians and people in government doesn't want this information to get out. The data protection authority comes in handy and intervenes in the FOI request by claiming that the list has personal data since it has names of people. These are the people who are supposed to know GDPR law in and out, after all it's their job. So they should know that a name in itself is not personal data, but instead blatantly abuse their power." While I agree that this kind of interpretation of the GDPR is clear abuse and should be brought to a court, I doubt whether DPAs are involved; it is more like poorly educated civil servants are incorrectly interpreting a law on their own. "Speak out then about these abuses, why not make a sustainable contribution to this discussion?" As I said, most of the abuses related to FOI trace to incorrect and zealous interpretation of confidentiality, including commercial confidentiality and secrecy on the grounds of security. It is difficult to discuss these issues at a general level since there has not been harmonization in the EU on this area. But I can give you one example: here in Finland national security is nowadays pretty much a hush-hush topic since they convicted a couple of journalists for revealing alleged "national secrets" that were not really "secrets" for anyone following cyber security. It dropped Finland's ranking: https://yle.fi/a/74-20030007 https://yle.fi/a/74-20030007 Here various state agencies also abuse local FOI law(s) with vague confidentiality claims that have little to do with the GDPR. See for instance: https://archiverosaefp.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IVJADPO20131003PH.pdf https://archiverosaefp.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IVJADP...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Dah00n 3y ago
>You can choose what you want to believe if you want to be ignorant. Then stand up and name a company and I'll find a user of their service and get them to make a GDPR request. If there's any truth to it I'll add it to HN.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  You seem to have completely misinterpreted my comment, please read it again.