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Ditto. In my whereabouts regime changed 5-10 times since 1900 depending on how you count. With several fight-for-freedom with different vectors. 1800s was more

by mantas 3y ago

Ditto. In my whereabouts regime changed 5-10 times since 1900 depending on how you count. With several fight-for-freedom with different vectors. 1800s was more stable, but dotted with uprisings. No stone was left unturned. Multiple times. The result? General notion is the government is jackasses and fuck authority in general. Which is vastly different from trust-the-government feeling in, for example, Sweden. This was (and still is, decades later) the biggest cultural shock to me.

marginalia_nu 3y ago
Sweden may also be a bit of an outlier in that it has a fairly young collective sense of identity, essentially rebuilding from scratch in the mid-late 19th century well into the 20th century, recovering from the century of poverty, squalor, and collective shame that followed the failed imperial ambitions of Charles XII; like really, it's a past most people would rather not dwell on. Dunno what's a good analogy. It's like Japan, except the a-bombs fell during the Edo period and the entire country was like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY for 150 years.
- Technotroll 3y ago
  I seriously doubt this. How can an entire people be responsible for what its king decides to do? Moreover, there's always been a strong bond between Scandinavian despite living under different rulers and conditions. But fair enough, counties were more marginalized 1000 years ago, and as such they could act in a more insular way, though that isn't particularly unique to Sweden.
  - marginalia_nu 3y ago
    It's not really about the wars, but rather the unimaginable shithole Sweden turned into as a consequence of the war spending. It really can't be overstated how bad things were in Sweden in most of the 18th and 19th century.
    - Technotroll 3y ago
      As far as I know, this is largely a myth. Compared to most other European countries, Sweden and Scandinavia weren't really doing too bad, but when you compare the conditions in Europe to the relative freedom you could attain in the New World, many did of course decide to leave. I'm happy if you have examples to the contrary, though, or can show how Sweden was a lot worse off than, say, Preussia or other nations of that time.

by mantas 3y ago

marginalia_nu 3y ago

Sweden may also be a bit of an outlier in that it has a fairly young collective sense of identity, essentially rebuilding from scratch in the mid-late 19th century well into the 20th century, recovering from the century of poverty, squalor, and collective shame that followed the failed imperial ambitions of Charles XII; like really, it's a past most people would rather not dwell on. Dunno what's a good analogy. It's like Japan, except the a-bombs fell during the Edo period and the entire country was like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY for 150 years.

Technotroll 3y ago
I seriously doubt this. How can an entire people be responsible for what its king decides to do? Moreover, there's always been a strong bond between Scandinavian despite living under different rulers and conditions. But fair enough, counties were more marginalized 1000 years ago, and as such they could act in a more insular way, though that isn't particularly unique to Sweden.
- marginalia_nu 3y ago
  It's not really about the wars, but rather the unimaginable shithole Sweden turned into as a consequence of the war spending. It really can't be overstated how bad things were in Sweden in most of the 18th and 19th century.
  - Technotroll 3y ago
    As far as I know, this is largely a myth. Compared to most other European countries, Sweden and Scandinavia weren't really doing too bad, but when you compare the conditions in Europe to the relative freedom you could attain in the New World, many did of course decide to leave. I'm happy if you have examples to the contrary, though, or can show how Sweden was a lot worse off than, say, Preussia or other nations of that time.