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Going to Shanghai or Beijing and living in the expat community is not the real China. Lots of foreigners in China live like the English used to live in Kenya -

Going to Shanghai or Beijing and living in the expat community is not the real China. Lots of foreigners in China live like the English used to live in Kenya - in a separate upper class society that has little in common with, and little contact to the local people. It's a bit sad actually, there are really fresh perspectives to be had there.

Prrometheus 18y ago
I don't see how it is sad. If I go to a third world nation, I am staying in a nice, western hotel. If my purpose in going is to start a business or see the sights, then there is no reason to get down in the muck. If my purpose is to write a novel about the life of the Chinese, then I should thoroughly investigate it. It all depends on your purpose for visiting.
- asdflkj 18y ago
  It's sad because it shows stunning lack of curiosity. The reason to "get down in the muck" is because you'd want to, and the opportunity is right there.
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
cglee 18y ago
That's like saying European tourists who visit only NYC and SanFran and stay in posh hotels aren't seeing the real America. There are many faces to China, and the expat life is one of them.
- markessien 18y ago
  Yes, but the people I am talking about live for years that way.
  - cglee 18y ago
    That's how I'd want to live if I were there long term. My point is, there's no 'real' China. It's all about perspectives and layers...is there a 'real' US?
    - markessien 18y ago
      Yes, there is a real U.S. There are Africans living in the U.S who have been there 10 years, eat African food, watch African movies, interact with African friends, speak bad English and have no idea what Seinfeld is. They live in a parallel world that has nothing to do with the country they are in. They would do the same everywhere they went. To me, it seems to be a waste. Why travel to a new country with a new culture, and take your old culture with you? And quite beside that, I find this attitude of the expat upper class a bit elitist, and it goes against the things I believe in. I believe that if one lives in a country, one should attempt to understand and interact with the local culture and traditions, and not create a society that totally ignores these norms.
      - netcan 18y ago
        Why travel to a new country with a new culture, and take your old culture with you? Well that's unavoidable really. The question is how much you let local culture in on top of the culture you bring with you. Why they do it is probably because culture is not what brought them to The States. That is an argument I have heard made against refuge intake & discouragement of economic migration.
      - cglee 18y ago
        The major difference there is that China caters to expat enclaves because they have money, just like US caters to Jewish enclaves. Yes, I agree it's elitist, but that doesn't make it any less 'real'. It's part of today's China. Your example is also a little off; immigrants band together out of necessity and survival. That's why there are Chinatowns and Indiantowns, etc. It's in their best interest. Side note: expats tend to flock to other expats due to several reasons, but one is also survival. It's much easier to find friends or business partners with other expats because there less ulterior motives. As an expat, whenever you meet a native Chinese, you're not sure they're nice because you're an expat and they need something, or what. In fact, most Chinese people are very regionalist and are not 'nice'. They're only nice because they think you have money.
jhancock 18y ago
It is true there are many facets of China. The way some expats live in Shanghai or Beijing is a small view of that. Amongst the locals, the lifestyles are highly diverse. The difference between East and West China is enormous. I have lived in Shanghai for over 8 years (I'm a white male from the U.S.). I live in the nicest part of town and my office is a comfortable 5 blocks walk from home. I pay dearly for this comfort. And I'm not naive about what the high cost differential is buying me. I do know how the locals live. I'm married to a local Chinese lady and we have a family together where I deal with issues of raising a child according to multi-cultural values. Do not confuse the simple fact that many expats are willing to pay for whatever comforts of home they can with the fact that most of us that have been here a while are aware of the difference. If you are young and ready for an adventure, come to China and live like the local poor for a while. It will be a great life experience. After that, you should have enough perspective to use what money you have to live with what comforts you find most desirable.

Prrometheus 18y ago

I don't see how it is sad. If I go to a third world nation, I am staying in a nice, western hotel. If my purpose in going is to start a business or see the sights, then there is no reason to get down in the muck. If my purpose is to write a novel about the life of the Chinese, then I should thoroughly investigate it. It all depends on your purpose for visiting.

asdflkj 18y ago
It's sad because it shows stunning lack of curiosity. The reason to "get down in the muck" is because you'd want to, and the opportunity is right there.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]

cglee 18y ago

That's like saying European tourists who visit only NYC and SanFran and stay in posh hotels aren't seeing the real America. There are many faces to China, and the expat life is one of them.

markessien 18y ago
Yes, but the people I am talking about live for years that way.
- cglee 18y ago
  That's how I'd want to live if I were there long term. My point is, there's no 'real' China. It's all about perspectives and layers...is there a 'real' US?
  - markessien 18y ago
    Yes, there is a real U.S. There are Africans living in the U.S who have been there 10 years, eat African food, watch African movies, interact with African friends, speak bad English and have no idea what Seinfeld is. They live in a parallel world that has nothing to do with the country they are in. They would do the same everywhere they went. To me, it seems to be a waste. Why travel to a new country with a new culture, and take your old culture with you? And quite beside that, I find this attitude of the expat upper class a bit elitist, and it goes against the things I believe in. I believe that if one lives in a country, one should attempt to understand and interact with the local culture and traditions, and not create a society that totally ignores these norms.
    - netcan 18y ago
      Why travel to a new country with a new culture, and take your old culture with you? Well that's unavoidable really. The question is how much you let local culture in on top of the culture you bring with you. Why they do it is probably because culture is not what brought them to The States. That is an argument I have heard made against refuge intake & discouragement of economic migration.
    - cglee 18y ago
      The major difference there is that China caters to expat enclaves because they have money, just like US caters to Jewish enclaves. Yes, I agree it's elitist, but that doesn't make it any less 'real'. It's part of today's China. Your example is also a little off; immigrants band together out of necessity and survival. That's why there are Chinatowns and Indiantowns, etc. It's in their best interest. Side note: expats tend to flock to other expats due to several reasons, but one is also survival. It's much easier to find friends or business partners with other expats because there less ulterior motives. As an expat, whenever you meet a native Chinese, you're not sure they're nice because you're an expat and they need something, or what. In fact, most Chinese people are very regionalist and are not 'nice'. They're only nice because they think you have money.

jhancock 18y ago

It is true there are many facets of China. The way some expats live in Shanghai or Beijing is a small view of that. Amongst the locals, the lifestyles are highly diverse. The difference between East and West China is enormous. I have lived in Shanghai for over 8 years (I'm a white male from the U.S.). I live in the nicest part of town and my office is a comfortable 5 blocks walk from home. I pay dearly for this comfort. And I'm not naive about what the high cost differential is buying me. I do know how the locals live. I'm married to a local Chinese lady and we have a family together where I deal with issues of raising a child according to multi-cultural values. Do not confuse the simple fact that many expats are willing to pay for whatever comforts of home they can with the fact that most of us that have been here a while are aware of the difference. If you are young and ready for an adventure, come to China and live like the local poor for a while. It will be a great life experience. After that, you should have enough perspective to use what money you have to live with what comforts you find most desirable.