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You can't even get a USED Tesla for under $20K. And who wants to buy a used Tesla (or any EV) even if the price was competitive? The range degrades with the b

You can't even get a USED Tesla for under $20K. And who wants to buy a used Tesla (or any EV) even if the price was competitive? The range degrades with the battery and replacing it costs more than the car is worth.

jlundberg 3y ago
You generally don’t need to replace the battery of an EV during it’s life time.
- treyfitty 3y ago
  That depends on how you’re defining lifetime. I doubt the batteries of today will last 12 years, which is the average age of cars on US roads.
  - snovv_crash 3y ago
    What data are you basing this on? From what I've seen Teslas still typically have 80%+ capacity after 200k miles.
- friendzis 3y ago
  Yes, because life of battery effectively equals life of vehicle due to eventual depreciation. For reference, that famous million mile Tesla went through three batteries and eight motors [1]. [1]: https://thedriven.io/2022/06/15/tesla-model-s-owner-passes-incredible-one-million-mile-mark-but-may-switch-to-lucid/ https://thedriven.io/2022/06/15/tesla-model-s-owner-passes-i...
- nikau 3y ago
  Yes, like the almost million mile tesla model S: As far as we know, the original battery pack had an issue after 290,000 km (180,000 miles) and was replaced under warranty. However, Tesla was initially figuring out the issue and installed a loaner battery, which was used for half a year or 150,000 km (93,000 miles). Then, Tesla installed a new, final battery. We don't have any info about any further replacements, so it might be the first 1 million km battery? In terms of drive units. The Tesla Model S P85 is a single-motor, rear-wheel-drive car. High power and torque was an issue in the early Teslas, which caused a few motor replacements. Three units were replaced by 680,000 km and the fourth one was running up to 1,000,000 km. We don't have any info on whether anything happened after that.
rrrrrrrrrrrryan 3y ago
EVs with smaller batteries degrade faster. IIRC, one of the big reasons Teslas are comparatively expensive is because their batteries are gigantic relative to their range. They're basically using a lot of energy from the battery to power cooling systems to keep the battery cool, which means they degrade much more slowly. You can look up user-generated plots of average battery degradation and see that most Teslas still have 90% of their range after 100k miles. Other cheaper EVs manage this equation differently and their batteries do degrade more quickly.
buffington 3y ago
I bought a used Tesla Model 3. The person I bought it from bought it used as well. I'm the third owner. The battery capacity after 65k miles is 97% of original. If we naively assume that every 21k miles driven drops 1% of capacity, then after another 1 million miles I'll be at 50% capacity. That'd still give me 4x the range I need on a daily basis. Even if the rate of degradation were 2-3x my estimates, the battery in my car is more likely to allow my car to drive further than even the most babied, well taken care of, internal combustion engine ever could.

jlundberg 3y ago

You generally don’t need to replace the battery of an EV during it’s life time.

treyfitty 3y ago
That depends on how you’re defining lifetime. I doubt the batteries of today will last 12 years, which is the average age of cars on US roads.
- snovv_crash 3y ago
  What data are you basing this on? From what I've seen Teslas still typically have 80%+ capacity after 200k miles.
friendzis 3y ago
Yes, because life of battery effectively equals life of vehicle due to eventual depreciation. For reference, that famous million mile Tesla went through three batteries and eight motors [1]. [1]: https://thedriven.io/2022/06/15/tesla-model-s-owner-passes-incredible-one-million-mile-mark-but-may-switch-to-lucid/ https://thedriven.io/2022/06/15/tesla-model-s-owner-passes-i...
nikau 3y ago
Yes, like the almost million mile tesla model S: As far as we know, the original battery pack had an issue after 290,000 km (180,000 miles) and was replaced under warranty. However, Tesla was initially figuring out the issue and installed a loaner battery, which was used for half a year or 150,000 km (93,000 miles). Then, Tesla installed a new, final battery. We don't have any info about any further replacements, so it might be the first 1 million km battery? In terms of drive units. The Tesla Model S P85 is a single-motor, rear-wheel-drive car. High power and torque was an issue in the early Teslas, which caused a few motor replacements. Three units were replaced by 680,000 km and the fourth one was running up to 1,000,000 km. We don't have any info on whether anything happened after that.

rrrrrrrrrrrryan 3y ago

EVs with smaller batteries degrade faster. IIRC, one of the big reasons Teslas are comparatively expensive is because their batteries are gigantic relative to their range. They're basically using a lot of energy from the battery to power cooling systems to keep the battery cool, which means they degrade much more slowly. You can look up user-generated plots of average battery degradation and see that most Teslas still have 90% of their range after 100k miles. Other cheaper EVs manage this equation differently and their batteries do degrade more quickly.

buffington 3y ago

I bought a used Tesla Model 3. The person I bought it from bought it used as well. I'm the third owner. The battery capacity after 65k miles is 97% of original. If we naively assume that every 21k miles driven drops 1% of capacity, then after another 1 million miles I'll be at 50% capacity. That'd still give me 4x the range I need on a daily basis. Even if the rate of degradation were 2-3x my estimates, the battery in my car is more likely to allow my car to drive further than even the most babied, well taken care of, internal combustion engine ever could.