3 ms·

1. Source? 2. Toyota is behind. Check what the Chinese and Germans are doing. Though you can't really do that since most of those cars aren't sold in the US.

by oblio 3y ago

Dalewyn 3y ago
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/20/02/17/1725220/tesla-teardown-finds-electronics-6-years-ahead-of-toyota-and-vw https://tech.slashdot.org/story/20/02/17/1725220/tesla-teard... >What stands out most is Tesla's integrated central control unit, or "full self-driving computer." Also known as Hardware 3, this little piece of tech is the company's biggest weapon in the burgeoning EV market. It could end the auto industry supply chain as we know it. One stunned engineer from a major Japanese automaker examined the computer and declared, "We cannot do it."
- oblio 3y ago
  The thing is, these PR puff pieces aka submarine articles: http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html are all everywhere for Tesla, like they are for Apple. I've seen entire sites dissect the Apple Watch or Apple mobile cameras, or Teslas. Their competitors are very comparable yet you have to hand it to Tesla, their behind the scenes PR game is through the roof.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Might very well turn out that premium OEMs big failure wasn't being late to the EV game, but failing to switch their behind the scenes marketing game from traditional print journalism, and the online versions of it, to online only, blog-like car journalism. Still digitalisation so, sure. And still linked to EVs, traditional car journalism still caters to a crowd of ICE fanatics, but overall much more a thing of marketing than engineering. For Tesla, the risk still is Musk. But they seem to be doing a good job of distancing themselves enough from his recent antics to not be hurt by them, while staying close enough to benefit from his personal brand.
    - dagw 3y ago
      but failing to switch their behind the scenes marketing game from traditional print journalism, and the online versions of it, to online only, blog-like car journalism. Yea, I can't help to notice that my 13 year old, who on the whole knows and cares nothing about cars, thinks that Teslas are the coolest cars ever, has already decided that their first car will be a Tesla and wants our next car to be a Tesla. Brands like Merceds, BMW, Porsche etc. mean very little to them.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    You say that, meanwhile just yesterday we had someone drive-by to tell us a 2021 Honda uses computing technology from 2012[1]. So pardon me if I lend more credence to the notion that tech companies outstrip car companies when it comes to technology. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36052753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36052753
    - hef19898 3y ago
      If you have proplem with 2012 computing controlling a car, you should never get even close to a modern airliner... What do you need 2023 computing for, running LLMs or mining bitcoin while driving?
    - rickdeckard 3y ago
      There's a difference between technology for the sake of comfort/entertainment and technology for critical elements of a product able to kill you and others. If I need to get an eye-surgery and the equipment runs on Android, I'd rather go for the one running on Android 4 for 10 years already, than the one running on Android 13 for 6 months now...
  - yenda 3y ago
    Like that story about a Tesla driver driving off a cliff in California and everyone surviving the crash? A story that even ended up in french and German newspapers
    - mensetmanusman 3y ago
      Did people follow the aftermath? Ie it seems the person was trying to kill their entire family?
neuronic 3y ago
German here. Cars are one hallmark of our economy. We are behind as well. The Chinese are absolutely crushing it in Asia and Middle East now. Volkswagen had a market share of ICE cars of ~20%, for EVs it's now closer to 1%. EVs are way easier to build and a lot of Chinese companies are doing it successfully. They are offering cheaper EVs. They are selling in Mideast/Asia and now start to enter Europe as well. None of these cars is particularly bad - while I'd still take the Korean EVs before anything else today, the Chinese are coming. German manufacturers only produce premium level cars few people can afford and they produce them badly. ID.3 is too expensive for its segment and too much of the car just doesnt work well.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  Indeed, even premium German cars suck at basic stuff. For example, their HMI is super slow to boot and Porsche still won't allow more than 3 region updates per year over WiFi, because reasons. Even Porsche dealers don't know why.[1] Porsche can afford to give their customers Dacia levels of digitalization because they're premium sports cars that sell anyway, but the Asians are coming after the other German brands and will steamroll them if they don't start getting their act together. [1] https://youtu.be/yHuJysr5hk4?t=415 https://youtu.be/yHuJysr5hk4?t=415
- gruturo 3y ago
  (EU customer here - this colors my impressions also due to different models availability compared to the US or other markets) The specs and price gap between a Renault Zoe (Inexpensive, with consequently low acceleration, top speed, handling and range, but absolutely a joy to use in a city or on short trips - perfect balance of price/specs) and a Tesla M3/MY is quite wide and should allow some other manufacturers to wedge themselves into a rather popular segment, with profit. And yet... there's hardly anything better than a Zoe, they immediately approach or pass the price of a Tesla (looking at you Volkswagen, Cupra, Audi, Mercedes, etc) while being worse by an impressive margin (paltry top speeds, uncomfortable ranges, rather primitive features, etc). You start getting cars something favorably comparable with a baseline Tesla M3 RWD when you add a good 20k to its price, it's ridiculous. And apparently they're hardly breaking even on those, while Tesla has a decent profit margin, what's wrong with them? I'm also hoping China and Korea will upend this market because established EU/US manufacturers surely won't.
elif 3y ago
https://insideevs.com/news/655087/toyota-engineers-after-tesla-model-y-teardown-work-of-art/ https://insideevs.com/news/655087/toyota-engineers-after-tes...

1. Source? 2. Toyota is behind. Check what the Chinese and Germans are doing. Though you can't really do that since most of those cars aren't sold in the US.

by oblio 3y ago

1. Source? 2. Toyota is behind. Check what the Chinese and Germans are doing. Though you can't really do that since most of those cars aren't sold in the US.

Dalewyn 3y ago

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/20/02/17/1725220/tesla-teardown-finds-electronics-6-years-ahead-of-toyota-and-vw https://tech.slashdot.org/story/20/02/17/1725220/tesla-teard... >What stands out most is Tesla's integrated central control unit, or "full self-driving computer." Also known as Hardware 3, this little piece of tech is the company's biggest weapon in the burgeoning EV market. It could end the auto industry supply chain as we know it. One stunned engineer from a major Japanese automaker examined the computer and declared, "We cannot do it."

oblio 3y ago
The thing is, these PR puff pieces aka submarine articles: http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html are all everywhere for Tesla, like they are for Apple. I've seen entire sites dissect the Apple Watch or Apple mobile cameras, or Teslas. Their competitors are very comparable yet you have to hand it to Tesla, their behind the scenes PR game is through the roof.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Might very well turn out that premium OEMs big failure wasn't being late to the EV game, but failing to switch their behind the scenes marketing game from traditional print journalism, and the online versions of it, to online only, blog-like car journalism. Still digitalisation so, sure. And still linked to EVs, traditional car journalism still caters to a crowd of ICE fanatics, but overall much more a thing of marketing than engineering. For Tesla, the risk still is Musk. But they seem to be doing a good job of distancing themselves enough from his recent antics to not be hurt by them, while staying close enough to benefit from his personal brand.
  - dagw 3y ago
    but failing to switch their behind the scenes marketing game from traditional print journalism, and the online versions of it, to online only, blog-like car journalism. Yea, I can't help to notice that my 13 year old, who on the whole knows and cares nothing about cars, thinks that Teslas are the coolest cars ever, has already decided that their first car will be a Tesla and wants our next car to be a Tesla. Brands like Merceds, BMW, Porsche etc. mean very little to them.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  You say that, meanwhile just yesterday we had someone drive-by to tell us a 2021 Honda uses computing technology from 2012[1]. So pardon me if I lend more credence to the notion that tech companies outstrip car companies when it comes to technology. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36052753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36052753
  - hef19898 3y ago
    If you have proplem with 2012 computing controlling a car, you should never get even close to a modern airliner... What do you need 2023 computing for, running LLMs or mining bitcoin while driving?
  - rickdeckard 3y ago
    There's a difference between technology for the sake of comfort/entertainment and technology for critical elements of a product able to kill you and others. If I need to get an eye-surgery and the equipment runs on Android, I'd rather go for the one running on Android 4 for 10 years already, than the one running on Android 13 for 6 months now...
- yenda 3y ago
  Like that story about a Tesla driver driving off a cliff in California and everyone surviving the crash? A story that even ended up in french and German newspapers
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    Did people follow the aftermath? Ie it seems the person was trying to kill their entire family?

neuronic 3y ago

German here. Cars are one hallmark of our economy. We are behind as well. The Chinese are absolutely crushing it in Asia and Middle East now. Volkswagen had a market share of ICE cars of ~20%, for EVs it's now closer to 1%. EVs are way easier to build and a lot of Chinese companies are doing it successfully. They are offering cheaper EVs. They are selling in Mideast/Asia and now start to enter Europe as well. None of these cars is particularly bad - while I'd still take the Korean EVs before anything else today, the Chinese are coming. German manufacturers only produce premium level cars few people can afford and they produce them badly. ID.3 is too expensive for its segment and too much of the car just doesnt work well.

ChuckNorris89 3y ago
Indeed, even premium German cars suck at basic stuff. For example, their HMI is super slow to boot and Porsche still won't allow more than 3 region updates per year over WiFi, because reasons. Even Porsche dealers don't know why.[1] Porsche can afford to give their customers Dacia levels of digitalization because they're premium sports cars that sell anyway, but the Asians are coming after the other German brands and will steamroll them if they don't start getting their act together. [1] https://youtu.be/yHuJysr5hk4?t=415 https://youtu.be/yHuJysr5hk4?t=415
gruturo 3y ago
(EU customer here - this colors my impressions also due to different models availability compared to the US or other markets) The specs and price gap between a Renault Zoe (Inexpensive, with consequently low acceleration, top speed, handling and range, but absolutely a joy to use in a city or on short trips - perfect balance of price/specs) and a Tesla M3/MY is quite wide and should allow some other manufacturers to wedge themselves into a rather popular segment, with profit. And yet... there's hardly anything better than a Zoe, they immediately approach or pass the price of a Tesla (looking at you Volkswagen, Cupra, Audi, Mercedes, etc) while being worse by an impressive margin (paltry top speeds, uncomfortable ranges, rather primitive features, etc). You start getting cars something favorably comparable with a baseline Tesla M3 RWD when you add a good 20k to its price, it's ridiculous. And apparently they're hardly breaking even on those, while Tesla has a decent profit margin, what's wrong with them? I'm also hoping China and Korea will upend this market because established EU/US manufacturers surely won't.

elif 3y ago

https://insideevs.com/news/655087/toyota-engineers-after-tesla-model-y-teardown-work-of-art/ https://insideevs.com/news/655087/toyota-engineers-after-tes...