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- "Tesla was both the least reliable but most popular EV brand in a survey of owners that found one in three of all EVs had major issues in the past year" [1]

by Mawr 3y ago

- "Tesla was both the least reliable but most popular EV brand in a survey of owners that found one in three of all EVs had major issues in the past year" [1] - "Electric vehicles are less reliable than gas cars, according to a survey of UK drivers." [1] - "Kia was the most reliable EV maker in the study, while Tesla was the least reliable." [1] - "Consumer Reports Still Ranks Tesla Reliability 27th Out Of 28" [2] - "The Model Y still has body hardware issues with the tailgate and door alignment, paint defects, and multiple other problems." [2] [1]: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-least-reliable-ev-brand-uk-survey-2022-3?op=1&r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-least-reliable-ev-bran... [2]: https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reliability-poor-2021/ https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reli...

speedgoose 3y ago
It’s true. Luxury cars using brand new technology are less reliable that cheap and simple cars with old fashioned technologies. The first Tesla model S were particularly not very reliable. Lot of equipments, new vertical integration from Tesla on many parts, unreliable premium technology such as air suspension… The model 3 and y are a bit better. The electric (not hybrid) BMW i3 from the same period has been one of the most reliable BMW, a more experienced brand with ICE cars having similar equipment. If you wanted reliability in 2013, a base Dacia was probably a better choice.
- inferiorhuman 3y ago
  I've a 20 year old BMW that's never given me any grief with the air suspension. Air suspension is not new technology and it wasn't new when my car was built.
  - speedgoose 3y ago
    No but air suspensions are a lot more unreliable. It’s a big sign that the car is more about comfort than reliability.
    - inferiorhuman 3y ago
      In twenty years the air bags (and potentially the pump side fittings) have been replaced once. That's about on par with a conventional coil spring suspension and pretty typical for an E39. Coil springs sag, rust, and break over time (especially in areas where the roads are salted). If Tesla can't make a reliable air suspension that seems more like a Tesla problem.
      - speedgoose 3y ago
        From your sample size of N=1, it seems that BMW cannot either.
        inferiorhuman 3y ago
        Aside from Tesla=good, BMW=bad, how do you figure? Replacing a spring, whether steel or air, is normal for older cars especially those that come from harsh environments. My car in particular was older than any Tesla S is today when the air bags were replaced. The pump and electronics are still original. Any Tesla that's had problems with its air suspension got a shorter service life than I (and plenty of other E39 owners) did. Besides Tesla's struggles with their conventional suspension components are well documented in a series of non-OTA recalls.
  - Grazester 3y ago
    Well, I have a relative that bought an x5 used. The vehicle was about 10 years old at the time and in good condition. In the precessing months the airbags fail(both rear I think). He lives in a country where parts are easy to come by for BMW's it's a mostly Japanese car market there. I had to ship him the airbags. He sold the thing right after installing them. I expected the airbags to be more expensive though.
    - inferiorhuman 3y ago
      Depending on the climate you'll start to see steel (coil and leaf) springs start to rust away by ten years. Meanwhile the Tesla S was introduced in 2012 which puts the majority of the problems in cars younger than your relative's X5. The previous owner replaced the air bags (springs) on my car so I couldn't say if they actually failed or if he did as part of a refresh when he lowered the car. They're not super expensive, but the aftermarket ones are that much cheaper. Of course the X5 (especially the first generation) is one of the least reliable vehicles BMW's brought to market. It's the electronics and pump that get real pricey, but on the E39 they pretty much never fail.
renewiltord 3y ago
This is one of those things where it's quite clear to me there's news and there's immutable fact. My friends have Teslas and they have never brought it into the shop. Everyone I know with one says they don't trust FSD entirely but love the car and use AP all the time. It's like the iPhone. When it was released to years afterwards, enthusiasts breathlessly posted about how it was nothing like the Nokia whatever or the Windows Mobile whatever. They posted about the factories and who was first and established companies and articles about how the iPhone had no copy and paste or this or that. Meanwhile, the iPhone surged ahead. Everyone I knew who had one raved. It was apparent that the enthusiasts were blindsided. People without an opinion were buying this device. It was going to rule! Same with Teslas. Rave reviews from my network of early buyers of their non-sports-car. Online all sorts of warnings and complaints. Years later, rave reviews from my friends. Turns out it works out. People online can find 400 sources for their stuff. The factories are in tents. There are gaps in the panels. FSD isn't fully self driving. But people love it. And now we find ourselves at immutable fact: best selling car in the world.
- llsf 3y ago
  I am not sure to understand this dissonance... I owned a model 3 since April 2019, and also I had zero issue. The only time I went to the Tesla center it was to receive the car. It is so nice to not have to see a car dealer or gas station since April 2019. There is no way I could go back to another car. Even an EV, most of them are ICE cars with electric powertrain, with way too many buttons or dials, and no integration. The iPhone comparison is pretty good. You have to experience it to realize the gap. The software/hardware integration makes the difference, but you have to experience it to fully appreciate it.
  - Phrodo_00 3y ago
    Meanwhile, a coworker got a Model S and after 2 service visits ended up having to change his entire wiring harness. On a vehicle with less than 100 miles.
    - llsf 3y ago
llsf 3y ago
I have a hard time to believe those articles, from my anecdotal experience of owning a model 3 since April 2019, I had zero (0) issue, no recall, no oil change, nothing. Feels like cheating. I did change a tire (well 2 because they come in pairs) because I drove on a piece of metal poking one tire. Nothing due to Tesla. I do not even brake, so those brake pads would last a very long time... You really have to try it, it is quite impressive.

by Mawr 3y ago

speedgoose 3y ago

It’s true. Luxury cars using brand new technology are less reliable that cheap and simple cars with old fashioned technologies. The first Tesla model S were particularly not very reliable. Lot of equipments, new vertical integration from Tesla on many parts, unreliable premium technology such as air suspension… The model 3 and y are a bit better. The electric (not hybrid) BMW i3 from the same period has been one of the most reliable BMW, a more experienced brand with ICE cars having similar equipment. If you wanted reliability in 2013, a base Dacia was probably a better choice.

inferiorhuman 3y ago
I've a 20 year old BMW that's never given me any grief with the air suspension. Air suspension is not new technology and it wasn't new when my car was built.
- speedgoose 3y ago
  No but air suspensions are a lot more unreliable. It’s a big sign that the car is more about comfort than reliability.
  - inferiorhuman 3y ago
    In twenty years the air bags (and potentially the pump side fittings) have been replaced once. That's about on par with a conventional coil spring suspension and pretty typical for an E39. Coil springs sag, rust, and break over time (especially in areas where the roads are salted). If Tesla can't make a reliable air suspension that seems more like a Tesla problem.
    - speedgoose 3y ago
      From your sample size of N=1, it seems that BMW cannot either.
      - inferiorhuman 3y ago
        Aside from Tesla=good, BMW=bad, how do you figure? Replacing a spring, whether steel or air, is normal for older cars especially those that come from harsh environments. My car in particular was older than any Tesla S is today when the air bags were replaced. The pump and electronics are still original. Any Tesla that's had problems with its air suspension got a shorter service life than I (and plenty of other E39 owners) did. Besides Tesla's struggles with their conventional suspension components are well documented in a series of non-OTA recalls.
- Grazester 3y ago
  Well, I have a relative that bought an x5 used. The vehicle was about 10 years old at the time and in good condition. In the precessing months the airbags fail(both rear I think). He lives in a country where parts are easy to come by for BMW's it's a mostly Japanese car market there. I had to ship him the airbags. He sold the thing right after installing them. I expected the airbags to be more expensive though.
  - inferiorhuman 3y ago
    Depending on the climate you'll start to see steel (coil and leaf) springs start to rust away by ten years. Meanwhile the Tesla S was introduced in 2012 which puts the majority of the problems in cars younger than your relative's X5. The previous owner replaced the air bags (springs) on my car so I couldn't say if they actually failed or if he did as part of a refresh when he lowered the car. They're not super expensive, but the aftermarket ones are that much cheaper. Of course the X5 (especially the first generation) is one of the least reliable vehicles BMW's brought to market. It's the electronics and pump that get real pricey, but on the E39 they pretty much never fail.

renewiltord 3y ago

This is one of those things where it's quite clear to me there's news and there's immutable fact. My friends have Teslas and they have never brought it into the shop. Everyone I know with one says they don't trust FSD entirely but love the car and use AP all the time. It's like the iPhone. When it was released to years afterwards, enthusiasts breathlessly posted about how it was nothing like the Nokia whatever or the Windows Mobile whatever. They posted about the factories and who was first and established companies and articles about how the iPhone had no copy and paste or this or that. Meanwhile, the iPhone surged ahead. Everyone I knew who had one raved. It was apparent that the enthusiasts were blindsided. People without an opinion were buying this device. It was going to rule! Same with Teslas. Rave reviews from my network of early buyers of their non-sports-car. Online all sorts of warnings and complaints. Years later, rave reviews from my friends. Turns out it works out. People online can find 400 sources for their stuff. The factories are in tents. There are gaps in the panels. FSD isn't fully self driving. But people love it. And now we find ourselves at immutable fact: best selling car in the world.

llsf 3y ago
I am not sure to understand this dissonance... I owned a model 3 since April 2019, and also I had zero issue. The only time I went to the Tesla center it was to receive the car. It is so nice to not have to see a car dealer or gas station since April 2019. There is no way I could go back to another car. Even an EV, most of them are ICE cars with electric powertrain, with way too many buttons or dials, and no integration. The iPhone comparison is pretty good. You have to experience it to realize the gap. The software/hardware integration makes the difference, but you have to experience it to fully appreciate it.
- Phrodo_00 3y ago
  Meanwhile, a coworker got a Model S and after 2 service visits ended up having to change his entire wiring harness. On a vehicle with less than 100 miles.
  - llsf 3y ago

llsf 3y ago

I have a hard time to believe those articles, from my anecdotal experience of owning a model 3 since April 2019, I had zero (0) issue, no recall, no oil change, nothing. Feels like cheating. I did change a tire (well 2 because they come in pairs) because I drove on a piece of metal poking one tire. Nothing due to Tesla. I do not even brake, so those brake pads would last a very long time... You really have to try it, it is quite impressive.