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> don't want the unreliability of a German luxury car or a Tesla I truly beg you to talk to an actual Tesla owner to refine your opinions. EVs are practically

> don't want the unreliability of a German luxury car or a Tesla I truly beg you to talk to an actual Tesla owner to refine your opinions. EVs are practically 0-maintenance machines. Unless you need to change your tires... you just don't think about oil changes or motor belts breaking or engine filters clogging and all the other nonsense that breaks in an ICE car. If you hate Tesla that's a completely valid opinion, but don't pretend that people are buying Teslas just to spite themselves... the user experience is, for the vast majority of people, simply great.

jerrysievert 3y ago
huh, I read that in a completely different way than you. my brain inserted an Oxford comma: > don't want the unreliability of a German luxury car or a Tesla became > don't want the unreliability of a German luxury car, or a Tesla since the addition of the article "a" seemed to change the meaning. had it been > don't want the unreliability of a German luxury car or Tesla it would have conveyed even different meaning to me. I'm kind of curious what the GP's post actually meant at this point.
- cshimmin 3y ago
  That's not what an Oxford comma is, FYI. I think GGPs interpretation is grammatically correct but I agree that the phrasing is ambiguous. But given Tesla's documented unreliability one can assume what they meant...
borissk 3y ago
FWIW I've been driving German cars my whole life and never had one break. Never had to think about motor belts or engine filters - just visit a garage for planned maintenance every year or whatever miles the manual states. Tesla are an amazing company, that made EVs mainstream, but I'm never going to buy one. They don't know what the word "privacy" means.
- pnpnp 3y ago
  Counter point, I drove a new German car and had the turbo blow up (this was an "economy" car) within 4,000 miles. I still loved that car, but ICE engines have an order of magnitude more points of failure.
  - borissk 3y ago
    True, but car industry has an order of magnitude more experience making ICE engines and turbo blow up on a new car is extremely rare. Doesn't really matter, obviously EVs are the future.
    - pnpnp 3y ago
      This thought just came to me, but industrial electric motors have been around a loooong time. I think the growing pains we are seeing is that new companies are trying to build cars, and don’t have the experience of traditional automakers. There’s a heck of a lot of institutional knowledge that goes into integrating all the components of a car. The newcomers have simplified a lot of it, but are definitely hitting some of the stumbling blocks of old.
  - jerrysievert 3y ago
    I had my first two engines on my current car (2007, current engine 2013) replaced before finally having a reliable car (manufacturer paid for both replacements after noting there were defects and not anything I had done). some times stuff is just borked up until a certain point and some of us get unlucky with the quicker to die versions. sucks, but we need to look at the averages, not the outliers. * editing to add that I would still recommend my car make and model, because it's just so damned awesome, but I would hate for others to go through what I went through.
- resolutebat 3y ago
  For comparison, here's the Tesla maintenance schedule: none.
  - 3y ago
gcgbcfy 3y ago
[flagged]
- sixQuarks 3y ago
  You're the one that sounds like a bot. Owned a Tesla for the past 5 years, zero issues.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
    Yeah, I’ve spent about five or six times as much servicing my Honda Odyssey over the last three years as my Tesla. And, my Tesla isn’t zero-maintenance but most of the service has involve me parking my car on my driveway and waiting for the mobile tech to show up.
Shekelphile 3y ago
> EVs are practically 0-maintenance machines. Unless you need to change your tires... you just don't think about oil changes or motor belts breaking or engine filters clogging and all the other nonsense that breaks in an ICE car. Until your AC fails in your s/x outside of warranty, or you get unlucky enough to have your Y's heat pump fall apart like thousands of people in cold climates have over the last few years. Both repairs are $5000+ and seem to happen much faster than similar issues in conventional vehicles with belt driven AC compressors.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Mawr 3y ago
- "Tesla was both the least reliable but most popular EV brand in a survey of owners that found one in three of all EVs had major issues in the past year" [1] - "Electric vehicles are less reliable than gas cars, according to a survey of UK drivers." [1] - "Kia was the most reliable EV maker in the study, while Tesla was the least reliable." [1] - "Consumer Reports Still Ranks Tesla Reliability 27th Out Of 28" [2] - "The Model Y still has body hardware issues with the tailgate and door alignment, paint defects, and multiple other problems." [2] [1]: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-least-reliable-ev-brand-uk-survey-2022-3?op=1&r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-least-reliable-ev-bran... [2]: https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reliability-poor-2021/ https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reli...
- speedgoose 3y ago
  It’s true. Luxury cars using brand new technology are less reliable that cheap and simple cars with old fashioned technologies. The first Tesla model S were particularly not very reliable. Lot of equipments, new vertical integration from Tesla on many parts, unreliable premium technology such as air suspension… The model 3 and y are a bit better. The electric (not hybrid) BMW i3 from the same period has been one of the most reliable BMW, a more experienced brand with ICE cars having similar equipment. If you wanted reliability in 2013, a base Dacia was probably a better choice.
  - inferiorhuman 3y ago
    I've a 20 year old BMW that's never given me any grief with the air suspension. Air suspension is not new technology and it wasn't new when my car was built.
    - speedgoose 3y ago
      No but air suspensions are a lot more unreliable. It’s a big sign that the car is more about comfort than reliability.
      - 3y ago
LeoPanthera 3y ago
> I truly beg you to talk to an actual Tesla owner to refine your opinions. Hi! I'm an actual Tesla owner. My Model X is approaching 3 years old. It is the worst car I have ever owned. Almost everything that can break on it, has broken. I would care much less if Tesla would actually try to fix it when you take it in for service (as mine has been for a total of weeks), instead they lie and say things like "that's normal" when it clearly isn't. I hate the car, I hate the service experience, and now, for a fun bonus extra, I hate Elon. I will never buy another Tesla.
- photonbeam 3y ago
  I have interior bodywork that makes creaking sounds when I go over any bump. Was also told by service that’s expected for the model
  - LeoPanthera 3y ago
    It isn't, but what they actually mean is that they will refuse to fix it, and "it's normal" is the fastest way to get you to go away.
- qwerpy 3y ago
  What are you getting next? I’m looking for a large electric SUV/van/truck to complement my model Y (wife keeps taking it instead of using her own car) but the only ones I like are Teslas and Rivians.
  - LeoPanthera 3y ago
    I have pre-ordered a Polestar 3.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Given the other announcement today, an F-150 Lightning, if you can get your hands on one.
- rvz 3y ago
  A very happy customer. Thank you for your testimonial.
rurp 3y ago
A relative of mine has owned a Tesla for about three years which has spent more time inoperable than all of the ice cars I have owned combined. Teslas break in all sorts of ways and it can take months to get parts. Maybe EVs will be longer lasting and lower maintenence on average in the long run, but we won't really know until the average EV age catches up with ICE cars. Tesla's in particular are inordinately dependent on a single company for parts and repairs. That increases the risk of being able to easily maintain an older car in the future.

jerrysievert 3y ago

huh, I read that in a completely different way than you. my brain inserted an Oxford comma: > don't want the unreliability of a German luxury car or a Tesla became > don't want the unreliability of a German luxury car, or a Tesla since the addition of the article "a" seemed to change the meaning. had it been > don't want the unreliability of a German luxury car or Tesla it would have conveyed even different meaning to me. I'm kind of curious what the GP's post actually meant at this point.

cshimmin 3y ago
That's not what an Oxford comma is, FYI. I think GGPs interpretation is grammatically correct but I agree that the phrasing is ambiguous. But given Tesla's documented unreliability one can assume what they meant...

borissk 3y ago

FWIW I've been driving German cars my whole life and never had one break. Never had to think about motor belts or engine filters - just visit a garage for planned maintenance every year or whatever miles the manual states. Tesla are an amazing company, that made EVs mainstream, but I'm never going to buy one. They don't know what the word "privacy" means.

pnpnp 3y ago
Counter point, I drove a new German car and had the turbo blow up (this was an "economy" car) within 4,000 miles. I still loved that car, but ICE engines have an order of magnitude more points of failure.
- borissk 3y ago
  True, but car industry has an order of magnitude more experience making ICE engines and turbo blow up on a new car is extremely rare. Doesn't really matter, obviously EVs are the future.
  - pnpnp 3y ago
    This thought just came to me, but industrial electric motors have been around a loooong time. I think the growing pains we are seeing is that new companies are trying to build cars, and don’t have the experience of traditional automakers. There’s a heck of a lot of institutional knowledge that goes into integrating all the components of a car. The newcomers have simplified a lot of it, but are definitely hitting some of the stumbling blocks of old.
- jerrysievert 3y ago
  I had my first two engines on my current car (2007, current engine 2013) replaced before finally having a reliable car (manufacturer paid for both replacements after noting there were defects and not anything I had done). some times stuff is just borked up until a certain point and some of us get unlucky with the quicker to die versions. sucks, but we need to look at the averages, not the outliers. * editing to add that I would still recommend my car make and model, because it's just so damned awesome, but I would hate for others to go through what I went through.
resolutebat 3y ago
For comparison, here's the Tesla maintenance schedule: none.
- 3y ago

gcgbcfy 3y ago

[flagged]

sixQuarks 3y ago
You're the one that sounds like a bot. Owned a Tesla for the past 5 years, zero issues.
- fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
  Yeah, I’ve spent about five or six times as much servicing my Honda Odyssey over the last three years as my Tesla. And, my Tesla isn’t zero-maintenance but most of the service has involve me parking my car on my driveway and waiting for the mobile tech to show up.

Shekelphile 3y ago

> EVs are practically 0-maintenance machines. Unless you need to change your tires... you just don't think about oil changes or motor belts breaking or engine filters clogging and all the other nonsense that breaks in an ICE car. Until your AC fails in your s/x outside of warranty, or you get unlucky enough to have your Y's heat pump fall apart like thousands of people in cold climates have over the last few years. Both repairs are $5000+ and seem to happen much faster than similar issues in conventional vehicles with belt driven AC compressors.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Mawr 3y ago

- "Tesla was both the least reliable but most popular EV brand in a survey of owners that found one in three of all EVs had major issues in the past year" [1] - "Electric vehicles are less reliable than gas cars, according to a survey of UK drivers." [1] - "Kia was the most reliable EV maker in the study, while Tesla was the least reliable." [1] - "Consumer Reports Still Ranks Tesla Reliability 27th Out Of 28" [2] - "The Model Y still has body hardware issues with the tailgate and door alignment, paint defects, and multiple other problems." [2] [1]: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-least-reliable-ev-brand-uk-survey-2022-3?op=1&r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-least-reliable-ev-bran... [2]: https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reliability-poor-2021/ https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reli...

speedgoose 3y ago
It’s true. Luxury cars using brand new technology are less reliable that cheap and simple cars with old fashioned technologies. The first Tesla model S were particularly not very reliable. Lot of equipments, new vertical integration from Tesla on many parts, unreliable premium technology such as air suspension… The model 3 and y are a bit better. The electric (not hybrid) BMW i3 from the same period has been one of the most reliable BMW, a more experienced brand with ICE cars having similar equipment. If you wanted reliability in 2013, a base Dacia was probably a better choice.
- inferiorhuman 3y ago
  I've a 20 year old BMW that's never given me any grief with the air suspension. Air suspension is not new technology and it wasn't new when my car was built.
  - speedgoose 3y ago
    No but air suspensions are a lot more unreliable. It’s a big sign that the car is more about comfort than reliability.
    - 3y ago

LeoPanthera 3y ago

> I truly beg you to talk to an actual Tesla owner to refine your opinions. Hi! I'm an actual Tesla owner. My Model X is approaching 3 years old. It is the worst car I have ever owned. Almost everything that can break on it, has broken. I would care much less if Tesla would actually try to fix it when you take it in for service (as mine has been for a total of weeks), instead they lie and say things like "that's normal" when it clearly isn't. I hate the car, I hate the service experience, and now, for a fun bonus extra, I hate Elon. I will never buy another Tesla.

photonbeam 3y ago
I have interior bodywork that makes creaking sounds when I go over any bump. Was also told by service that’s expected for the model
- LeoPanthera 3y ago
  It isn't, but what they actually mean is that they will refuse to fix it, and "it's normal" is the fastest way to get you to go away.
qwerpy 3y ago
What are you getting next? I’m looking for a large electric SUV/van/truck to complement my model Y (wife keeps taking it instead of using her own car) but the only ones I like are Teslas and Rivians.
- LeoPanthera 3y ago
  I have pre-ordered a Polestar 3.
- fragmede 3y ago
  Given the other announcement today, an F-150 Lightning, if you can get your hands on one.
rvz 3y ago
A very happy customer. Thank you for your testimonial.

rurp 3y ago

A relative of mine has owned a Tesla for about three years which has spent more time inoperable than all of the ice cars I have owned combined. Teslas break in all sorts of ways and it can take months to get parts. Maybe EVs will be longer lasting and lower maintenence on average in the long run, but we won't really know until the average EV age catches up with ICE cars. Tesla's in particular are inordinately dependent on a single company for parts and repairs. That increases the risk of being able to easily maintain an older car in the future.