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With this change, it feels like even though Tesla may be overtaken by the rest of the automotive industry on cars themselves, they seem to have cemented their p

With this change, it feels like even though Tesla may be overtaken by the rest of the automotive industry on cars themselves, they seem to have cemented their place as the eventual leader in consumer filling stations.

faeriechangling 3y ago
Sounds like the perfect legacy for Elon Musk to have once he goes for broke and his other ventures are forgotten. The Supercharger guy.
jojobas 3y ago
Is there much investment required to set up a charging station? There is a requirement of be HV capacity sure, but it would seem some transformers and power electronics is not as expensive as burying fuel tanks underground.
- King-Aaron 3y ago
  I'm honestly not entirely sure, but I don't imagine it's a cheap investment. I just did a quick google and this site mentions: > Hardware costs for a Public DC electric vehicle charging station are very expensive ranging from between $40,000-$100,000 per charging station. and > In addition to high hardware costs, installation can also be very expensive given the frequent need to install a 480V transformer, upgrade the electrical supply as well as the permitting and increased labor time needed for the project. Installation costs would likely range from between $15,000-$60,000 depending on the specific nature of the project. https://evse.com.au/blog/evchargercost/ https://evse.com.au/blog/evchargercost/ Note this an Australian site so it'll be in AUD, and I have no idea on the validity of these numbers. I know at one of our client sites (mining) they recently set up a charging station for vehicles that tipped into the $millions. But apples and oranges in that regard.
  - jojobas 3y ago
    Apparently building a petrol station is on the order of a million dollars in the US, so it would appear to be on par?
    - King-Aaron 3y ago
      It probably would be I suppose.
- iknowstuff 3y ago
  > Companies couldn’t apply for more than 70% of the cost of the chargers up to $150,000 per charger, and Forbes reports that Tesla was asking for only ~$30,000 per charger versus the full $150,000 for most applicants: https://electrek.co/2022/04/15/tesla-cost-deploy-superchargers-revealed-one-fifth-competition/ https://electrek.co/2022/04/15/tesla-cost-deploy-supercharge...
- simonebrunozzi 3y ago
  The problem is not the station, it's the electric network. It currently would not support too many stations.
  - natch 3y ago
    This is not true. There is plenty of capacity at night and stations can store capacity at night locally at the charger location, no stress on the grid, for use in the day using batteries which can be scaled up massively if needed. They may not cover the full day, but they can smooth the curve enough to solve the problem you have in mind. And if it’s not enough, again just add more batteries.
    - jojobas 3y ago
      Do they actually deploy batteries at charging stations? Now this sounds ridiculously expensive and inefficient.
- msh 3y ago
  A single charging station is not really competitive. Its the network of stations and the integrated software (so you can see in your car navigation if a charger is busy for example).
  - simondotau 3y ago
    Most importantly of all, it's the reliability of the network. Nobody has been able to compete with Tesla with >99% uptime.
    - _ea1k 3y ago
      That is mostly a function of maintenance. Tesla doesn't have a large team, but they are well organized and respond quickly when needed.
    - cduzz 3y ago
      Has any company actually tried? I don't feel like other car companies, as demonstrated by their public activities, aren't acting like DC Fast charging is critical to the success of their company. Tesla behaves as though the success of their company is based on being able to use their cars for 100% of the things people use cars for. If there's some potential excuse (Hey I might need to drive to Newark at a moment's notice when my car's nearly empty; I can do that with my fiesta but I can't with some EV) tesla seems to work to overcome that issue. At this point, if you own a tesla (in north america), you can likely drive between any two cities with 50k or more people and always have a supercharger in between. You can drive from Edmonton to Prince Albert with 2 superchargers in between. [edited from 3 to 2; the 3rd is in Saskatoon which isn't really in between]
    - clouddrover 3y ago
      > Nobody has been able to compete with Tesla with >99% uptime. How would you know? You're quoting a figure straight from Tesla's marketing and you're not comparing it to other charging networks using the same methodology or the same definition of "uptime".
      - 3y ago
pmorici 3y ago
It was revealed today that the Tesla Model Y took the place of Toyota Corolla as the number one selling vehicle world wide. Tesla is the one doing the over taking.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mschuster91 3y ago
  Wait until the Chinese manufacturers (BYD and friends) catch up - they've been growing immensely over the last few years, and in contrast to Tesla or the legacy auto makers, they all have the limitless coffers of the CCP to back their expansion. Personally I'd be happier if Chinese products artificially subsidized by CCP government funds be slapped with heavy tariffs to counteract that, but I don't believe that it will happen. [1] https://insideevs.com/news/629273/byd-plugin-car-sales-december2022/ https://insideevs.com/news/629273/byd-plugin-car-sales-decem...
  - Spivak 3y ago
    Punishing Chinese companies for being government subsidized feels wrong on a lot of levels, the first of which being we subsidize the shit out of our own domestic industry and two because it presumes that the american way of organizing an economy is the only valid one.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      There's rules on how to do subsidies and an international organization supposed to safeguard these, the WTO. China is violating these rules on a scale that puts the US and Europe combined to shame, the absurd thing is that it's the US who is currently blocking WTO appointments.
    - machiaweliczny 3y ago
      It's not wrong if they are abusing human rights/dignity to get there or eating up environmental costs. You might not want to compete with that and tarrifs seem fine in that scenario.
electrondood 3y ago
Model Y was the best-selling car in the world last quarter. Even if they end up with "only" 20% market share (see Apple's iPhone), their ruthless dedication to operating leverage ensures that they are making more money per car than all their other competitors combined. "Competition" has been "coming" for 10 years now. Tesla also want others to succeed. It's why they open-sourced all of their patents. Tesla already owns all the "gas stations," people just don't realize it yet.

faeriechangling 3y ago

Sounds like the perfect legacy for Elon Musk to have once he goes for broke and his other ventures are forgotten. The Supercharger guy.

jojobas 3y ago

Is there much investment required to set up a charging station? There is a requirement of be HV capacity sure, but it would seem some transformers and power electronics is not as expensive as burying fuel tanks underground.

King-Aaron 3y ago
I'm honestly not entirely sure, but I don't imagine it's a cheap investment. I just did a quick google and this site mentions: > Hardware costs for a Public DC electric vehicle charging station are very expensive ranging from between $40,000-$100,000 per charging station. and > In addition to high hardware costs, installation can also be very expensive given the frequent need to install a 480V transformer, upgrade the electrical supply as well as the permitting and increased labor time needed for the project. Installation costs would likely range from between $15,000-$60,000 depending on the specific nature of the project. https://evse.com.au/blog/evchargercost/ https://evse.com.au/blog/evchargercost/ Note this an Australian site so it'll be in AUD, and I have no idea on the validity of these numbers. I know at one of our client sites (mining) they recently set up a charging station for vehicles that tipped into the $millions. But apples and oranges in that regard.
- jojobas 3y ago
  Apparently building a petrol station is on the order of a million dollars in the US, so it would appear to be on par?
  - King-Aaron 3y ago
    It probably would be I suppose.
iknowstuff 3y ago
> Companies couldn’t apply for more than 70% of the cost of the chargers up to $150,000 per charger, and Forbes reports that Tesla was asking for only ~$30,000 per charger versus the full $150,000 for most applicants: https://electrek.co/2022/04/15/tesla-cost-deploy-superchargers-revealed-one-fifth-competition/ https://electrek.co/2022/04/15/tesla-cost-deploy-supercharge...
simonebrunozzi 3y ago
The problem is not the station, it's the electric network. It currently would not support too many stations.
- natch 3y ago
  This is not true. There is plenty of capacity at night and stations can store capacity at night locally at the charger location, no stress on the grid, for use in the day using batteries which can be scaled up massively if needed. They may not cover the full day, but they can smooth the curve enough to solve the problem you have in mind. And if it’s not enough, again just add more batteries.
  - jojobas 3y ago
    Do they actually deploy batteries at charging stations? Now this sounds ridiculously expensive and inefficient.
msh 3y ago
A single charging station is not really competitive. Its the network of stations and the integrated software (so you can see in your car navigation if a charger is busy for example).
- simondotau 3y ago
  Most importantly of all, it's the reliability of the network. Nobody has been able to compete with Tesla with >99% uptime.
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    That is mostly a function of maintenance. Tesla doesn't have a large team, but they are well organized and respond quickly when needed.
  - cduzz 3y ago
    Has any company actually tried? I don't feel like other car companies, as demonstrated by their public activities, aren't acting like DC Fast charging is critical to the success of their company. Tesla behaves as though the success of their company is based on being able to use their cars for 100% of the things people use cars for. If there's some potential excuse (Hey I might need to drive to Newark at a moment's notice when my car's nearly empty; I can do that with my fiesta but I can't with some EV) tesla seems to work to overcome that issue. At this point, if you own a tesla (in north america), you can likely drive between any two cities with 50k or more people and always have a supercharger in between. You can drive from Edmonton to Prince Albert with 2 superchargers in between. [edited from 3 to 2; the 3rd is in Saskatoon which isn't really in between]
  - clouddrover 3y ago
    > Nobody has been able to compete with Tesla with >99% uptime. How would you know? You're quoting a figure straight from Tesla's marketing and you're not comparing it to other charging networks using the same methodology or the same definition of "uptime".
    - 3y ago

pmorici 3y ago

It was revealed today that the Tesla Model Y took the place of Toyota Corolla as the number one selling vehicle world wide. Tesla is the one doing the over taking.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mschuster91 3y ago
Wait until the Chinese manufacturers (BYD and friends) catch up - they've been growing immensely over the last few years, and in contrast to Tesla or the legacy auto makers, they all have the limitless coffers of the CCP to back their expansion. Personally I'd be happier if Chinese products artificially subsidized by CCP government funds be slapped with heavy tariffs to counteract that, but I don't believe that it will happen. [1] https://insideevs.com/news/629273/byd-plugin-car-sales-december2022/ https://insideevs.com/news/629273/byd-plugin-car-sales-decem...
- Spivak 3y ago
  Punishing Chinese companies for being government subsidized feels wrong on a lot of levels, the first of which being we subsidize the shit out of our own domestic industry and two because it presumes that the american way of organizing an economy is the only valid one.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    There's rules on how to do subsidies and an international organization supposed to safeguard these, the WTO. China is violating these rules on a scale that puts the US and Europe combined to shame, the absurd thing is that it's the US who is currently blocking WTO appointments.
  - machiaweliczny 3y ago
    It's not wrong if they are abusing human rights/dignity to get there or eating up environmental costs. You might not want to compete with that and tarrifs seem fine in that scenario.

electrondood 3y ago

Model Y was the best-selling car in the world last quarter. Even if they end up with "only" 20% market share (see Apple's iPhone), their ruthless dedication to operating leverage ensures that they are making more money per car than all their other competitors combined. "Competition" has been "coming" for 10 years now. Tesla also want others to succeed. It's why they open-sourced all of their patents. Tesla already owns all the "gas stations," people just don't realize it yet.