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Same I have an old Suzuki and I wouldn't get rid of it for anything. On the other hand, I think the whole concept of cars is the actual problem, especially hea

Same I have an old Suzuki and I wouldn't get rid of it for anything. On the other hand, I think the whole concept of cars is the actual problem, especially heavier cars. The tire dust alone is enough to think about weening ourselves off the project. Then there is strip mining the earth for cobalt and all the other nasty shit in the devices, it's pretty bad. Where I live e-bikes are really taking off, to me e-bikes and public transport seem like the ultimate way to go. It even looks futuristic. A little bit of exercise and movement, combined with fully autonomous, small electric trains would be the best of all worlds.

rmbyrro 3y ago
Don't ebikes generate tire dust as well? By "public transport" you mean shared ebikes? I don't think this can be a mainstream public transport solution if we want to move forward. Ebikes are unsafe, for starters. I expect a lot worse security issues than what's being reported with Teslas...
- otterley 3y ago
  The question is not "doesn't the alternative have the same problem in kind"? It's "does the alternative have the same problem to the same degree?" Certainly, bikes have tires too, but bikes weigh a tiny fraction of an automobile, have half the number of tires, and generate a tiny fraction of the dust, per unit distance. We can't let perfect be the enemy of significantly better. > I don't think this can be a mainstream public transport solution if we want to move forward. The cities of Copenhagen and Amsterdam beg to differ. Bicycles are first-class citizens there in terms of transport. > Ebikes are unsafe, for starters. Do you have any stats on that?
  - rmbyrro 3y ago
    Really, you need stats to realize that an automobile is safer than bikes? Bike have half the number of tires but remember that they carry 1/5 the number of people. For one person, fine, but families? Good luck selling it... They're also problematic when it rains or snows. Or when the sun is hot.
- ehnto 3y ago
  It's going to be significantly less tire dust, they weigh a 100th the weight. Ebikes won't be mainstream in a typical American city though, the distances between home, goods and services and work are usually too great and cars are basically baked into the culture. Better mass transit and bikes for those living in denser cities, is likely America's only good option. I don't think e-bikes are unsafe though, their lack of safety is dominantly because of cars, and infrastructure not being set up for cycling.
  - rmbyrro 3y ago
    If you use an ebike, wait until you go down by yourself and tell me what you think again. No cars needed. On a cyclist lane. Just you and your bike. If you use it for everyday commute, it's a matter of time. When it happens, it will be no fun.
    - otterley 3y ago
      I just fell a few weeks ago. Some ripped jeans and road rash but I'm ok. No doctor visit required. Low-speed accidents are far less injurious than the sort of high-speed ones you can get into with automobiles, and by far less fatal. According to WSDOT, there were 2 bicycle-related fatalities in Washington state in all of 2023, vs. 218 automobile-related fatalities. So a 100x difference. The data is there if you care to look for it.
      - rmbyrro 3y ago
        If you care, you'd extrapolate the 2 fatalities to how many would be if bikes were adopted in mass as a means of transport in the Washington state (comparably to cars). The number of bike trips will not increase by 100x only, certainly by orders of magnitude more than that. Now multiply the 2 fatalities considering 10K, 100K or even more bike trips. Ebikes can reach and sustain higher velocities much more easily than normal bikes as well. If they were to be adopted in mass, I'd expect crash severity to worsen in general and fatality rates/trip to go up.
        3y ago

rmbyrro 3y ago

Don't ebikes generate tire dust as well? By "public transport" you mean shared ebikes? I don't think this can be a mainstream public transport solution if we want to move forward. Ebikes are unsafe, for starters. I expect a lot worse security issues than what's being reported with Teslas...

otterley 3y ago
The question is not "doesn't the alternative have the same problem in kind"? It's "does the alternative have the same problem to the same degree?" Certainly, bikes have tires too, but bikes weigh a tiny fraction of an automobile, have half the number of tires, and generate a tiny fraction of the dust, per unit distance. We can't let perfect be the enemy of significantly better. > I don't think this can be a mainstream public transport solution if we want to move forward. The cities of Copenhagen and Amsterdam beg to differ. Bicycles are first-class citizens there in terms of transport. > Ebikes are unsafe, for starters. Do you have any stats on that?
- rmbyrro 3y ago
  Really, you need stats to realize that an automobile is safer than bikes? Bike have half the number of tires but remember that they carry 1/5 the number of people. For one person, fine, but families? Good luck selling it... They're also problematic when it rains or snows. Or when the sun is hot.
ehnto 3y ago
It's going to be significantly less tire dust, they weigh a 100th the weight. Ebikes won't be mainstream in a typical American city though, the distances between home, goods and services and work are usually too great and cars are basically baked into the culture. Better mass transit and bikes for those living in denser cities, is likely America's only good option. I don't think e-bikes are unsafe though, their lack of safety is dominantly because of cars, and infrastructure not being set up for cycling.
- rmbyrro 3y ago
  If you use an ebike, wait until you go down by yourself and tell me what you think again. No cars needed. On a cyclist lane. Just you and your bike. If you use it for everyday commute, it's a matter of time. When it happens, it will be no fun.
  - otterley 3y ago
    I just fell a few weeks ago. Some ripped jeans and road rash but I'm ok. No doctor visit required. Low-speed accidents are far less injurious than the sort of high-speed ones you can get into with automobiles, and by far less fatal. According to WSDOT, there were 2 bicycle-related fatalities in Washington state in all of 2023, vs. 218 automobile-related fatalities. So a 100x difference. The data is there if you care to look for it.
    - rmbyrro 3y ago
      If you care, you'd extrapolate the 2 fatalities to how many would be if bikes were adopted in mass as a means of transport in the Washington state (comparably to cars). The number of bike trips will not increase by 100x only, certainly by orders of magnitude more than that. Now multiply the 2 fatalities considering 10K, 100K or even more bike trips. Ebikes can reach and sustain higher velocities much more easily than normal bikes as well. If they were to be adopted in mass, I'd expect crash severity to worsen in general and fatality rates/trip to go up.
      - 3y ago