5 ms·

Ford will add Tesla plug to its electric vehicles in surprising move

61 points by gwbas1c 3y ago

throw9away6 3y ago
That’s annoying it might kill the open standard
- nomel 3y ago
  I believe the Tesla plug is an open standard, and also the most used plug in the US.
  - fomine3 3y ago
    like Imperial units
    - happymellon 3y ago
      Americans use all the same words as imperial (oz, lb, etc) yet they are different quantities to imperial. Imagine going to a Tesla supercharger and then finding that it's just a little off. Not a great standard. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_imperial_and_US_customary_measurement_systems https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_imperial_a...
  - throw9away6 3y ago
    Yeah I just think the Tesla plug will win and I have a car with the wrong plug type. The current non Tesla stations are hot garbage
    - perilunar 3y ago
      Retrofitting a different socket on the car has got to be a pretty easy change though. Hopefully if one plug wins older cars can be updated.
      - nomel 3y ago
        There are adapters that can be bought and used today.
givemeethekeys 3y ago
Why didn't other car markers do this earlier? Isn't Tesla's architecture open source?
- whaleofatw2022 3y ago
  Per the article, it appears Tesla only opened up the plug last year...
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  Open source with such a massive caveat that you would need to have IQ 60 to take that bait. Basically by using Tesla's patents, you would give up all your patents.
nacs 3y ago
Looks like the Tesla Superchargers are about to get even more crowded than they already are..
- m463 3y ago
  But will it lead to more chargers with the tesla connector?
- 35997279 3y ago
  Which means surge pricing for Tesla. Musk said that charging would not be a money maker, but of course times have changed. Holding on to my free unlimited supercharging for life. :)
- rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
  Ford EV sales don't seem so frightening for Tesla. Tesla will probably get paid from each new Ford EV that get access to the supercharging network so they can speed up the deployment of new stations. This can only help with the mission.
dielotr 3y ago
I can't help but feel like this is Tesla surrendering their biggest moat (their Supercharger network, and the exclusivity of it) for questionable gain (worse immediate experience for their customers, unsure if additional revenue will outweigh the costs). But I can't NOT see it as a huge win for accelerating the world's transition to sustainable energy (Tesla's core mission). Brave, bold, and good for the planet. Better for the consumer, who now has two manufacturers' worth of cars to choose from.
- iknowstuff 3y ago
  Questionable gain? If they can be the dominant provider of fast charging for a hundred years regardless of their car sales, that's quite the gain. They also get to build out their capacity with subsidies they would have otherwise missed out on. They are easily 10x more capital efficient than the next fast charging competitor, so this is a very well thought out move.
- morkalork 3y ago
  Imagine a world where oil is companies and car manufacturers teamed up to make incompatible gas station pumps, does that not sound completely ridiculous?
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    Yes and no. There’s more “magic” to the layperson when it comes to electrical engineering. “Liquid gets poured” is more tangible and people will have practical knowledge of it. Using convoluted methods to prevent liquid flow from your competitors’ pumps is going to be more obvious as malicious to the average consumer. (I still definitely applaud this move which increases charging availability for consumers; just responding to this specific question.)
    - voisin 3y ago
      > Using convoluted methods to prevent liquid flow It doesn’t have to be convoluted. Differing the diameter (or shape!) or depth of the fuel input would do just fine unless people were going to resort to carrying around funnels.
clouddrover 3y ago
It's sad that the US still can't get its act together on compatible EV charging infrastructure. Incompatible chargers is profoundly stupid infrastructure. Europe had the right idea by setting a common charging standard. All brands of charger now charge all brands of EV in Europe. Anything less is backward, primitive, and not something anyone needs.
- hedora 3y ago
  Don’t forget incompatible payment schemes. It should be illegal for the charger networks to use anything other than third party payment systems. All the players in the US have proven they are incompetent at accepting payments. They should be forced to standardize on existing payment systems.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Legislators move slower than tech.
  - PsylentKnight 3y ago
    [American] legislators move slower than tech.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
  But CCS2 is much worse NACS! Tesla would definitely prefer to use a single plug type worldwide if the common standard wasn't so bad. They've opened up their network in Europe and clearly want more partners in the US. This business is already profitable and it's a great way to monetize their powerpacks and grid products (esp. Autobidder). They would be the first company to benefit from such a simplification and reinforce their lead.
  - clouddrover 3y ago
pbj1968 3y ago
Ford has been including Tesla adapters for awhile…
photochemsyn 3y ago
A universal standard for charging will mean more people will be willing to switch to electric vehicles as they won't have to worry about finding their special charger. Abandoning the dream of having a captive market for electricity sales to their customers and capturing market share was going to happen anyway, might as well just pull the plug now.
samcheng 3y ago
I remember being worried when Tesla released the Model 3 with a pay-per-kWh scheme. Was that one supercharger by the mall on the way to Tahoe going to be full all the time? Are all of these mass-market sedans going to make me wait? That did happen a little bit at a few legacy superchargers, but that minor inconvenience was outweighed by the sheer preponderance of additional superchargers built, everywhere. Instead of worrying about the sole charger being full, I can look on the map, and choose among several nearby chargers, each with reasonable meal options. I hope this happens with Ford. More cars should increase demand for stations, and additional stations increase convenience for everyone.

61 points by gwbas1c 3y ago

throw9away6 3y ago

That’s annoying it might kill the open standard

nomel 3y ago
I believe the Tesla plug is an open standard, and also the most used plug in the US.
- fomine3 3y ago
  like Imperial units
  - happymellon 3y ago
    Americans use all the same words as imperial (oz, lb, etc) yet they are different quantities to imperial. Imagine going to a Tesla supercharger and then finding that it's just a little off. Not a great standard. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_imperial_and_US_customary_measurement_systems https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_imperial_a...
- throw9away6 3y ago
  Yeah I just think the Tesla plug will win and I have a car with the wrong plug type. The current non Tesla stations are hot garbage
  - perilunar 3y ago
    Retrofitting a different socket on the car has got to be a pretty easy change though. Hopefully if one plug wins older cars can be updated.
    - nomel 3y ago
      There are adapters that can be bought and used today.

givemeethekeys 3y ago

Why didn't other car markers do this earlier? Isn't Tesla's architecture open source?

whaleofatw2022 3y ago
Per the article, it appears Tesla only opened up the plug last year...
TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
Open source with such a massive caveat that you would need to have IQ 60 to take that bait. Basically by using Tesla's patents, you would give up all your patents.

nacs 3y ago

Looks like the Tesla Superchargers are about to get even more crowded than they already are..

m463 3y ago
But will it lead to more chargers with the tesla connector?
35997279 3y ago
Which means surge pricing for Tesla. Musk said that charging would not be a money maker, but of course times have changed. Holding on to my free unlimited supercharging for life. :)
rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
Ford EV sales don't seem so frightening for Tesla. Tesla will probably get paid from each new Ford EV that get access to the supercharging network so they can speed up the deployment of new stations. This can only help with the mission.

dielotr 3y ago

I can't help but feel like this is Tesla surrendering their biggest moat (their Supercharger network, and the exclusivity of it) for questionable gain (worse immediate experience for their customers, unsure if additional revenue will outweigh the costs). But I can't NOT see it as a huge win for accelerating the world's transition to sustainable energy (Tesla's core mission). Brave, bold, and good for the planet. Better for the consumer, who now has two manufacturers' worth of cars to choose from.

iknowstuff 3y ago
Questionable gain? If they can be the dominant provider of fast charging for a hundred years regardless of their car sales, that's quite the gain. They also get to build out their capacity with subsidies they would have otherwise missed out on. They are easily 10x more capital efficient than the next fast charging competitor, so this is a very well thought out move.
morkalork 3y ago
Imagine a world where oil is companies and car manufacturers teamed up to make incompatible gas station pumps, does that not sound completely ridiculous?
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  Yes and no. There’s more “magic” to the layperson when it comes to electrical engineering. “Liquid gets poured” is more tangible and people will have practical knowledge of it. Using convoluted methods to prevent liquid flow from your competitors’ pumps is going to be more obvious as malicious to the average consumer. (I still definitely applaud this move which increases charging availability for consumers; just responding to this specific question.)
  - voisin 3y ago
    > Using convoluted methods to prevent liquid flow It doesn’t have to be convoluted. Differing the diameter (or shape!) or depth of the fuel input would do just fine unless people were going to resort to carrying around funnels.

clouddrover 3y ago

It's sad that the US still can't get its act together on compatible EV charging infrastructure. Incompatible chargers is profoundly stupid infrastructure. Europe had the right idea by setting a common charging standard. All brands of charger now charge all brands of EV in Europe. Anything less is backward, primitive, and not something anyone needs.

hedora 3y ago
Don’t forget incompatible payment schemes. It should be illegal for the charger networks to use anything other than third party payment systems. All the players in the US have proven they are incompetent at accepting payments. They should be forced to standardize on existing payment systems.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
mensetmanusman 3y ago
Legislators move slower than tech.
- PsylentKnight 3y ago
  [American] legislators move slower than tech.
rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
But CCS2 is much worse NACS! Tesla would definitely prefer to use a single plug type worldwide if the common standard wasn't so bad. They've opened up their network in Europe and clearly want more partners in the US. This business is already profitable and it's a great way to monetize their powerpacks and grid products (esp. Autobidder). They would be the first company to benefit from such a simplification and reinforce their lead.
- clouddrover 3y ago

pbj1968 3y ago

Ford has been including Tesla adapters for awhile…

photochemsyn 3y ago

A universal standard for charging will mean more people will be willing to switch to electric vehicles as they won't have to worry about finding their special charger. Abandoning the dream of having a captive market for electricity sales to their customers and capturing market share was going to happen anyway, might as well just pull the plug now.

samcheng 3y ago

I remember being worried when Tesla released the Model 3 with a pay-per-kWh scheme. Was that one supercharger by the mall on the way to Tahoe going to be full all the time? Are all of these mass-market sedans going to make me wait? That did happen a little bit at a few legacy superchargers, but that minor inconvenience was outweighed by the sheer preponderance of additional superchargers built, everywhere. Instead of worrying about the sole charger being full, I can look on the map, and choose among several nearby chargers, each with reasonable meal options. I hope this happens with Ford. More cars should increase demand for stations, and additional stations increase convenience for everyone.