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Did you look at the diesel emission scandal Wiki page? Everyone was 'cheating'; VW was a mid-level 'cheater' which took the brunt of the heat for it.

by nickff 3y ago

matthewfcarlson 3y ago
> Since 2016, 38 out of 40 diesel cars tested by ADAC failed a NOx-test.[6] Agreed that it seems like everyone at least looked suspicious.
reaperducer 3y ago
Everyone was 'cheating'; VW was a mid-level 'cheater' "But, mom! Everyone is doing it!" cried the 12-year-old. Two wrongs don't make a right.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  Being a mid-level cheater but taking all the blame is not "two wrongs don't make a right" material, unless you are duty bound to force your ethics choices through the nearest aphorism.
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  I mean yes, that's just judicial precedent
batman-farts 3y ago
I say this as someone still driving a pre-emissions-control diesel VW: Volkswagen had long been positioning themselves as the market leader for diesel passenger cars in the US. Nobody else was doing as much to offer diesels across their lineup, or push them as the "green"/economical option. And they have been the biggest manufacturer in Europe for a long time, so it makes sense that the EU came down on them like a ton of bricks too. There was a period in the early-mid 2000s where their diesels, along with Mercedes, got pushed out of California and CARB-compliant states. The opinion among diesel enthusiasts was that this was intentional on the part of CARB not just over NOx concerns, but also to help the market for hybrids grow. Otherwise, given the TDI's at-the-time superior highway mileage and the then-prevailing diesel prices, the VW diesel would have presented as the superior option to the Prius for a lot of people. During this period, there was still a lot of pent-up demand for the VW and Mercedes diesels in California. Any car coming from out of state with at least 8,500 miles on the odometer was considered a "used car" and could be registered no matter the powerplant, so there was quite a cottage industry of putting that much mileage on brand-new out-of-state diesels and then turning them around on LA or SF Craigslist. The market here was primed to buy VW, but VW cheated to get in a position to sell new "CARB-compliant" diesels again. I'm not surprised that the prosecutors went after them disproportionately.
bb88 3y ago
So you're blaming the regulators here for making an example of VW? Perhaps that may be valid, but if VW made the conscious decision to not follow government regulations, than that's on VW, not the regulators. Example making can be rather distasteful, but it can also be an effective deterrent preventing similar things happening again.
- babypuncher 3y ago
  VW was made an example of because they were far and away the biggest diesel passenger vehicle seller in the US. So even if their cheats weren't as egregious as other automakers, said cheats had far wider impact on consumers and the environment.

Did you look at the diesel emission scandal Wiki page? Everyone was 'cheating'; VW was a mid-level 'cheater' which took the brunt of the heat for it.

by nickff 3y ago

Did you look at the diesel emission scandal Wiki page? Everyone was 'cheating'; VW was a mid-level 'cheater' which took the brunt of the heat for it.

matthewfcarlson 3y ago

> Since 2016, 38 out of 40 diesel cars tested by ADAC failed a NOx-test.[6] Agreed that it seems like everyone at least looked suspicious.

reaperducer 3y ago

Everyone was 'cheating'; VW was a mid-level 'cheater' "But, mom! Everyone is doing it!" cried the 12-year-old. Two wrongs don't make a right.

robertlagrant 3y ago
Being a mid-level cheater but taking all the blame is not "two wrongs don't make a right" material, unless you are duty bound to force your ethics choices through the nearest aphorism.
mardifoufs 3y ago
I mean yes, that's just judicial precedent

batman-farts 3y ago

I say this as someone still driving a pre-emissions-control diesel VW: Volkswagen had long been positioning themselves as the market leader for diesel passenger cars in the US. Nobody else was doing as much to offer diesels across their lineup, or push them as the "green"/economical option. And they have been the biggest manufacturer in Europe for a long time, so it makes sense that the EU came down on them like a ton of bricks too. There was a period in the early-mid 2000s where their diesels, along with Mercedes, got pushed out of California and CARB-compliant states. The opinion among diesel enthusiasts was that this was intentional on the part of CARB not just over NOx concerns, but also to help the market for hybrids grow. Otherwise, given the TDI's at-the-time superior highway mileage and the then-prevailing diesel prices, the VW diesel would have presented as the superior option to the Prius for a lot of people. During this period, there was still a lot of pent-up demand for the VW and Mercedes diesels in California. Any car coming from out of state with at least 8,500 miles on the odometer was considered a "used car" and could be registered no matter the powerplant, so there was quite a cottage industry of putting that much mileage on brand-new out-of-state diesels and then turning them around on LA or SF Craigslist. The market here was primed to buy VW, but VW cheated to get in a position to sell new "CARB-compliant" diesels again. I'm not surprised that the prosecutors went after them disproportionately.

bb88 3y ago

So you're blaming the regulators here for making an example of VW? Perhaps that may be valid, but if VW made the conscious decision to not follow government regulations, than that's on VW, not the regulators. Example making can be rather distasteful, but it can also be an effective deterrent preventing similar things happening again.

babypuncher 3y ago
VW was made an example of because they were far and away the biggest diesel passenger vehicle seller in the US. So even if their cheats weren't as egregious as other automakers, said cheats had far wider impact on consumers and the environment.