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Do not confuse Russia with the Soviet Union. When NATO formed, it's border was the partition of Germany and below. Now it includes many countries that were form

Do not confuse Russia with the Soviet Union. When NATO formed, it's border was the partition of Germany and below. Now it includes many countries that were formally part of the Soviet Union. The US made assurances that NATO would not expand eastward. Ask Jeffrey Sachs who was there when those agreements were made. https://www.commondreams.org/author/jeffrey-d-sachs https://www.commondreams.org/author/jeffrey-d-sachs

dragonwriter 3y ago
> Do not confuse Russia with the Soviet Union Russia was a constituent Republic of the Soviet Union and NATO was on the border of Russia, as well as the Soviet Union, when it was formed. > The US made assurances that NATO would not expand eastward Informal assurances of current intent given to the Soviet Union around the time of German reunification and never reduced to a treaty or even a formal executive agreement are not binding commitments with unlimited time horizons inheritable by successor states. (And, anyhow, Russia's active pursuit of NATO membership, including under Putin until he got upset that he couldn't bypass the readiness requirements and be directly admitted ahead of others, would have been a clear repudiation of it if it did still have some applicability.)
- int_19h 3y ago
  Not that it makes a big difference, but for accuracy's sake: the only NATO country that had a land border with USSR proper was Turkey, which joined in 1952, three years after NATO was formed.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > Not that it makes a big difference, but for accuracy's sake: the only NATO country that had a land border with USSR proper was Turkey, which joined in 1952, three years after NATO was formed. Norway is a founding member with a land border, and borders don't just happen on land; the US also is territorially adjacent to Russia.
    - int_19h 3y ago
      You're right; I didn't even think of Norway because of how insignificant and remote that stretch of border is, but yeah, it's still technically land border. Either way I don't think it matters. The point ultimately is that NATO expansion is not some kind of Western imperialist creep - neighbors of Russia rushed to join NATO as soon as they could because they wanted security based on their own past experience. It was never a threat to Russia.
lisasays 3y ago
Do not confuse Russia with the Soviet Union. When NATO formed, it's border was the partition of Germany and below. Holy jeepers, this whole line of discussion you're pushing is ridiculous beyond words. But point in fact: Norway, which borders you-know-which-country, was one of the founding signatories of NATO at the time of its formation.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> Do not confuse Russia with the Soviet Union Russia was a constituent Republic of the Soviet Union and NATO was on the border of Russia, as well as the Soviet Union, when it was formed. > The US made assurances that NATO would not expand eastward Informal assurances of current intent given to the Soviet Union around the time of German reunification and never reduced to a treaty or even a formal executive agreement are not binding commitments with unlimited time horizons inheritable by successor states. (And, anyhow, Russia's active pursuit of NATO membership, including under Putin until he got upset that he couldn't bypass the readiness requirements and be directly admitted ahead of others, would have been a clear repudiation of it if it did still have some applicability.)

int_19h 3y ago
Not that it makes a big difference, but for accuracy's sake: the only NATO country that had a land border with USSR proper was Turkey, which joined in 1952, three years after NATO was formed.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Not that it makes a big difference, but for accuracy's sake: the only NATO country that had a land border with USSR proper was Turkey, which joined in 1952, three years after NATO was formed. Norway is a founding member with a land border, and borders don't just happen on land; the US also is territorially adjacent to Russia.
  - int_19h 3y ago
    You're right; I didn't even think of Norway because of how insignificant and remote that stretch of border is, but yeah, it's still technically land border. Either way I don't think it matters. The point ultimately is that NATO expansion is not some kind of Western imperialist creep - neighbors of Russia rushed to join NATO as soon as they could because they wanted security based on their own past experience. It was never a threat to Russia.

lisasays 3y ago

Do not confuse Russia with the Soviet Union. When NATO formed, it's border was the partition of Germany and below. Holy jeepers, this whole line of discussion you're pushing is ridiculous beyond words. But point in fact: Norway, which borders you-know-which-country, was one of the founding signatories of NATO at the time of its formation.