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How different is this from any other similar sized companies behaviour? This site doesn't seem that impartial/unbiased. From a linked article on Tesla: > It’s

by zizee 3y ago

How different is this from any other similar sized companies behaviour? This site doesn't seem that impartial/unbiased. From a linked article on Tesla: > It’s also worth noting that the above email was sent after 2 a.m. Pacific, which isn’t specifically relevant to the faked video. But it does make it look like Musk is a loser with no friends or anything else to do other than work. Loser.

dmbche 3y ago
Is what you raise relevant? Is it fine if everybody does it? Is the leak not real because you found a link to it on an unimpartial site? Edit:spelling
- Eisenstein 3y ago
  I think you meant 'biased' and not 'impartial'. I am not being pedantic; I don't want your sentence to have the wrong meaning so I am bringing it to your attention if that is the case.
  - dmbche 3y ago
    Oh no thanks! it was a typo, added un at the begining.
- dylan604 3y ago
  If you can find the same information to corroborate then no, but if it's the only source... But it is one of those trends that I personally do not like either where these posts are made like it's a personal conversation between two girlfriends or whatever. There's opinion pieces and then there's this kind of I don't even know what it's called I'm so un-hip
- meowkit 3y ago
  The leak can be real, but the narrative around the leak is important. My read from this link to a story about a story: ~1000 crashes related to autopilot reported for the 2.6 million autopilot enabled vehicles shipped in the reported time frame. .04% total failures. How many of these were user created and not the fault of the car? How many of the failures from the car were specific to that cars hardware vs the software? Was it a Tesla hardware failure or an OEM device failure? I’m not gonna do a full analysis, but whenever I re contextualize myself on car crash statistics I am reminded that Tesla failures represent an insignificant fraction of all failures.
- zizee 3y ago
  The report being on a site with a bias does make me want to read with a more critical eye, as everything is being spun to look as bad as possible. The behaviour described (not wanting anything written) might very well be standard operating procedure with any company with decent legal counsel. If it is common behaviour, it is not some sort of Muskism, part of his evil scheming as is implied in the article, instead it is a reflection of the world we live in.
sandofsky 3y ago
When a Toyota hid an “unintended acceleration” bug, it was a scandal that resulted in a $1.2B fine. https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214 https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-...
- iknowstuff 3y ago
  Every customer complaint about unintended acceleration of Teslas was proven in court to be the fault of the customer confusing the pedals. The accelerator pedal has two independent sensors measuring input - they both have to agree, and no input on the brake pedal must be detected for the vehicle to accelerate. They go a step further. They use their cameras to detect the environment and significantly slow down acceleration if they think it might be a mistake.
  - dmbche 3y ago
    Would you have a link to that? I'd be interested to look. As a side note, I've never heard of confusing the pedals as an issue for ANY car, so if Telsa's get people to confuse them enough to bring them to court, it's probably bad design. Edit: The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates 16,000 accidents per year in the United States occur when drivers intend to apply the brake but mistakenly apply the accelerator.[3] from wikipedia on Sudden unintended acceleration Hard to imagine how you fail to design pedals!
    - keneda7 3y ago
      I googled driver confuses pedals and got a ton of results. Surprisingly it happens pretty often. Makes me a little nervous.
    - olyjohn 3y ago
      It happens all the time. People panic and mash their foot to the floor. Some old guy crashed into 6 cars down the street from my work through a parking lot, and jumped his car across the alley and though the wall of my office into our break room. He just panicked and thought he was mashing the brakes. Luckily nobody was in the break room.
iknowstuff 3y ago
Jalopnik is absolutely garbage "journalism", they have a long long history of hating on Tesla.
- onionisafruit 3y ago
  Isn’t it a gawker site? I wouldn’t expect anything less.
- usr1106 3y ago
  They only refer to a respected German business newspaper which seems to have reasonable journalism. That doesn't mean that those journalists are necessarily completely unbiased. Germany's traditional car industry is threatened by Tesla without any doubt. However, the details on how Tesla is handling these reports is revealing and I have no doubts that they are real. That those who publish them might not like Tesla does not change that.
jjulius 3y ago
What's stopping you from clicking through to the German source and reading the English version of their piece?
- umeshunni 3y ago
  Here's the German article in case anyone wants to read through it / translate https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/industrie/autokonzern-tesla-files-wie-es-zu-dem-riesigen-datenleck-kam/29167078.html https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/industrie/autokonze...

by zizee 3y ago

dmbche 3y ago

Is what you raise relevant? Is it fine if everybody does it? Is the leak not real because you found a link to it on an unimpartial site? Edit:spelling

Eisenstein 3y ago
I think you meant 'biased' and not 'impartial'. I am not being pedantic; I don't want your sentence to have the wrong meaning so I am bringing it to your attention if that is the case.
- dmbche 3y ago
  Oh no thanks! it was a typo, added un at the begining.
dylan604 3y ago
If you can find the same information to corroborate then no, but if it's the only source... But it is one of those trends that I personally do not like either where these posts are made like it's a personal conversation between two girlfriends or whatever. There's opinion pieces and then there's this kind of I don't even know what it's called I'm so un-hip
meowkit 3y ago
The leak can be real, but the narrative around the leak is important. My read from this link to a story about a story: ~1000 crashes related to autopilot reported for the 2.6 million autopilot enabled vehicles shipped in the reported time frame. .04% total failures. How many of these were user created and not the fault of the car? How many of the failures from the car were specific to that cars hardware vs the software? Was it a Tesla hardware failure or an OEM device failure? I’m not gonna do a full analysis, but whenever I re contextualize myself on car crash statistics I am reminded that Tesla failures represent an insignificant fraction of all failures.
zizee 3y ago
The report being on a site with a bias does make me want to read with a more critical eye, as everything is being spun to look as bad as possible. The behaviour described (not wanting anything written) might very well be standard operating procedure with any company with decent legal counsel. If it is common behaviour, it is not some sort of Muskism, part of his evil scheming as is implied in the article, instead it is a reflection of the world we live in.

sandofsky 3y ago

When a Toyota hid an “unintended acceleration” bug, it was a scandal that resulted in a $1.2B fine. https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214 https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-...

iknowstuff 3y ago
Every customer complaint about unintended acceleration of Teslas was proven in court to be the fault of the customer confusing the pedals. The accelerator pedal has two independent sensors measuring input - they both have to agree, and no input on the brake pedal must be detected for the vehicle to accelerate. They go a step further. They use their cameras to detect the environment and significantly slow down acceleration if they think it might be a mistake.
- dmbche 3y ago
  Would you have a link to that? I'd be interested to look. As a side note, I've never heard of confusing the pedals as an issue for ANY car, so if Telsa's get people to confuse them enough to bring them to court, it's probably bad design. Edit: The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates 16,000 accidents per year in the United States occur when drivers intend to apply the brake but mistakenly apply the accelerator.[3] from wikipedia on Sudden unintended acceleration Hard to imagine how you fail to design pedals!
  - keneda7 3y ago
    I googled driver confuses pedals and got a ton of results. Surprisingly it happens pretty often. Makes me a little nervous.
  - olyjohn 3y ago
    It happens all the time. People panic and mash their foot to the floor. Some old guy crashed into 6 cars down the street from my work through a parking lot, and jumped his car across the alley and though the wall of my office into our break room. He just panicked and thought he was mashing the brakes. Luckily nobody was in the break room.

iknowstuff 3y ago

Jalopnik is absolutely garbage "journalism", they have a long long history of hating on Tesla.

onionisafruit 3y ago
Isn’t it a gawker site? I wouldn’t expect anything less.
usr1106 3y ago
They only refer to a respected German business newspaper which seems to have reasonable journalism. That doesn't mean that those journalists are necessarily completely unbiased. Germany's traditional car industry is threatened by Tesla without any doubt. However, the details on how Tesla is handling these reports is revealing and I have no doubts that they are real. That those who publish them might not like Tesla does not change that.

jjulius 3y ago

What's stopping you from clicking through to the German source and reading the English version of their piece?

umeshunni 3y ago
Here's the German article in case anyone wants to read through it / translate https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/industrie/autokonzern-tesla-files-wie-es-zu-dem-riesigen-datenleck-kam/29167078.html https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/industrie/autokonze...